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Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#191

Post by goldfishgold »

II2II wrote: post #171
johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

While I agree that "corporate America" is problematic, the lessons from Voyager are not really applicable. For starters, it was designed to take advantage of something that predictably happens every couple of hundred years. Very few corporations last that long. Then there is the element of predictability. The solar system pretty much works like clockwork. You can predict simple things, like the orbits of major bodies…

There are plenty of 100 year old companies doing basically what they did 100 years ago (Exxon, Coke, Hershey, Wells Fargo, etc.). They’re just not tech companies.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#192

Post by bdcravens »

johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

It also helps to have $4.5B (in 2024 dollars) to spend on a project.

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/voyager-spacec...

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#193

Post by Arcuru »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #185
cmonreally123 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the Boeing case on needing to be rebooted. It doesn't seem much worse then memory leaks in missle guidance tracking systems that exceed flight time. We have finite resources, if the effort to correct is minimal what's the harm?

> We have finite resources, if the effort to correct is minimal what's the harm? That mentality at Boeing as, literally, costed many lives. The harm is that nobody knows why there's a memory leak requiring a reboot (or if it's even a memory leak). What happens when that very same issue is combined with a rare case and causes the death of hundreds of people? "Have you tried to turn it off and on again" may be fine for…

The Boeing reboot is necessary because of an integer overflow that occurs once the aircraft is on for 248 days: https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/8548-reboot-...

> This condition is caused by a software counter internal to the GCUs that will overflow after 248 days of continuous power. We are issuing this AD to prevent loss of all AC electrical power, which could result in loss of control of the airplane.

> A simple guess suggests the the problem is a signed 32-bit overflow as 231 is the number of seconds in 248 days multiplied by 100, i.e. a counter in hundredths of of a second.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#194

Post by bruce511 »

manwe150 wrote: post #172
cmonreally123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You increase cost for what? The Boeing example I believe related to this defect which occurs after 51 days of operation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theregister.com/AMP/2020/04... This seems sane given that the planes don't operate for 51 days constantly (I'm not in aerospace so please correct me, it seems a reboot could occur with refueling without issue)

Usually planes are turned around too fast to be waiting for them to fully reboot every time they fuel. Typically they would prefer to keep them running for weeks at a time to minimize any issues or delays with extra steps when the clock is ticking and customers are waiting to board and fly

Planes are certainly turned around quickly, so a reboot every time they refuel isn't desirable.

But equally, they dont do this 24x7 - if only because airport curfews and maintainence schedules won't let them.

Rebooting the computer when doing regular maintenance is no big deal.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#196

Post by smcin »

bluGill wrote: post #186
eru wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...] You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. It's all about trade-offs, and many people have priorities that are different from 'last as long as possible'. Eg many computers from the 1980s are still perfectly usable t…

You can't use your 25 year old phone for more than a snake game. most 2g towers have been turned off to make room for 4g and 5g.

In the US, North America, you mean. 2G is still alive and kicking, especially in Africa and South Asia:

https://streetwave.co/mobile-networks/2g-switch-off-by-count...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#197

Post by II2II »

goldfishgold wrote: post #191
II2II wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that "corporate America" is problematic, the lessons from Voyager are not really applicable. For starters, it was designed to take advantage of something that predictably happens every couple of hundred years. Very few corporations last that long. Then there is the element of predictability. The solar system pretty much works like clockwork. You can predict simple things, like the orbits of major bodies…

There are plenty of 100 year old companies doing basically what they did 100 years ago (Exxon, Coke, Hershey, Wells Fargo, etc.). They’re just not tech companies.

I was thinking about companies approaching 200 years old since I knew my point would be more difficult to make if I said 100 years (and because they had a launch window that comes up roughly once every 200 years, though I checked that out and it is 175 years). That said, you're right about my basically overlooking companies that weren't based in technology.

Exxon is a cute example though. At one point, they owned Zilog.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#198

Post by nyjah »

eru wrote: post #180
johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...] You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. It's all about trade-offs, and many people have priorities that are different from 'last as long as possible'. Eg many computers from the 1980s are still perfectly usable t…

You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay

Not for everything. When I can do that I do, but it’s getting harder and harder to avoid subscription fees for everything these days.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#199

Post by goldfishgold »

II2II wrote: post #197
goldfishgold wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of 100 year old companies doing basically what they did 100 years ago (Exxon, Coke, Hershey, Wells Fargo, etc.). They’re just not tech companies.

I was thinking about companies approaching 200 years old since I knew my point would be more difficult to make if I said 100 years (and because they had a launch window that comes up roughly once every 200 years, though I checked that out and it is 175 years). That said, you're right about my basically overlooking companies that weren't based in technology. Exxon is a cute example though. At one point, they owned Zil…

Fair enough. 100yr old companies are pretty easy to come up with, 200yr old companies are much harder.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#200

Post by nine_k »

goldfishgold wrote: post #191
II2II wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that "corporate America" is problematic, the lessons from Voyager are not really applicable. For starters, it was designed to take advantage of something that predictably happens every couple of hundred years. Very few corporations last that long. Then there is the element of predictability. The solar system pretty much works like clockwork. You can predict simple things, like the orbits of major bodies…

There are plenty of 100 year old companies doing basically what they did 100 years ago (Exxon, Coke, Hershey, Wells Fargo, etc.). They’re just not tech companies.

I would say that IBM's business has changed less than Wells Fargo's. IBM still supplies number-crunching devices and services to large corporations and government agencies. The technicalities have changed, but the core business is the same. But running a bank under a gold standard is very different from running a bank under a fiat money and fractional reserve regime.
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