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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#191

Post by johnea »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

hat's all very conscientious. You should also consider:

Forth, how many more people will be run over in NYC now?

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#192

Post by lysace »

jmugan wrote: post #142

I remember visiting California in the 1990s and was amazed to see my California friends waiting patiently at the light, looking at me like I was uncivilized because I just crossed the street whenever it was safe.

Current day Sweden: People cross tend to cross the street whenever it feels safe, unless there's some mom/dad with young kids in tow nearby. Then it's polite to wait for the light to turn green. We often have very little traffic on our streets though, and they are often not very wide.

It's technically illegal to jaywalk but not punishable unless you manage to cause a traffic accident, somehow. I like these pragmatic laws.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#193

Post by jedberg »

thegrim33 wrote: post #130

The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic,…

I was in Morocco this summer, and for the most part, there is no separation between where motorbikes can ride and pedestrians can walk. It's totally intermixed.

At first I was concerned, but then I realized it's actually a lot safe. The motorbikes were cautious because there could be a pedestrian at any turn. And the pedestrians were cautious because there could be a motorbike at any moment.

Didn't see a single accident or even any near misses.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#194

Post by timr »

tsimionescu wrote: post #151
timr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they still have to yield to car traffic except at pedestrian crossings without a semaphore or at the Walk signal. This isn't true. Car traffic must yield to pedestrians. Pedestrians don't always have the right of way, but you (hopefully obviously) can't just arbitrarily mow them down. The only time this would matter is if you hit someone and it went to court. Thus in practice, you have to yield to pedestrians whene…

No, this is a misunderstanding of what right of way means. Drivers are never allowed to intentionally cause accidents, either with other cars or with pedestrians. If you have right of way in an intersection but a car is nevertheless not yielding to you, you are not allowed to plow into them if you can reasonably avoid it. That doesn't mean that you don't actually have right of way, or that you need to stop at every i…

We're saying the same thing, so "misunderstanding" is a bit of a strong claim.

> At a crosswalk, drivers will slow down if they see a pedestrian heading towards the crossing; they don't need to (and won't) at other places.

They literally must. It's in the law I cited:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/vat/title-7/article-26...

You can go to jail if you don't take due care to avoid hitting a pedestrian, or even an animal. The right of way of the person being hit is irrelevant. But sure, if you, pedestrian, cause an accident due to your failure to respect right of way, you have also violated a traffic law, and you could be punished for it.

In practice, in a place like NYC, you're going to have to go to pretty extreme lengths for this to apply. Maybe if you dart into traffic maliciously, and a car swerves to avoid you and hits something? I dunno. It's hard to imagine a scenario.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#195

Post by eikenberry »

mslate wrote: post #160
standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

Yes yes, the person outside of a car must provide deference to the car owner. Poor people serve the rich.

It's not about class, it's about staying alive. Cars win any encounter, hands down. My rule of crossing streets is to assume I am invisible and the drivers are not aware of my existence. This is, IMO, the only safe rule to follow when crossing the paths of fast moving, multi-ton machines with only minimal requirements made of the driver.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#196

Post by vel0city »

int_19h wrote: post #173
vel0city wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine most Americans violate speeding and other vehicles moving laws far more often than jaywalking. I imagine the majority of Americans haven't actually crossed a street as a pedestrian in the last week. Why would they? They drive from their home to their job to the parking lot of the grocery store to the drive through pickup line at school for their kids. I'm one of the more transit/pedestrian/bike people in th…

Even if you always drive, parking in large cities is often limited enough that you have to walk a fair bit from where you can find a spot to where you actually need to go.

You might overly be estimating your ideas of what is "urban".

Tons of Americans never have to deal with crossing a street for their parking. They're not parking at some lot around the block and walking. It's all just a sea of pavement. City codes mandate each big box store has dozens of spots per shelf in the store. This on its face seems like a gross overstatement but looking at maps shows the truth of the seas of empty lots surrounding big box stores.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#197

Post by consteval »

jklinger410 wrote: post #182
sehugg wrote: post #161

Good riddance. Crosswalks at intersections are nearly obsolete due to the thick A-pillars in modern cars. I would rather have mid-block crosswalks with warning lights and traffic calming devices.

> Crosswalks at intersections are nearly obsolete due to the thick A-pillars in modern cars. What?

They mean people standing up are invisible to cars in a lot of perspectives.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#198

Post by hifromwork »

eikenberry wrote: post #195
mslate wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes yes, the person outside of a car must provide deference to the car owner. Poor people serve the rich.

It's not about class, it's about staying alive. Cars win any encounter, hands down. My rule of crossing streets is to assume I am invisible and the drivers are not aware of my existence. This is, IMO, the only safe rule to follow when crossing the paths of fast moving, multi-ton machines with only minimal requirements made of the driver.

But we're talking about writing laws here. For example:

>with only minimal requirements made of the driver.

could easily be changed by changing the requirements.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#199

Post by acureau »

jklinger410 wrote: post #185

I will still be using the cross walks everywhere I go. Because there's no shortcut across the street that is worth me stopping traffic or getting hit by a car. Jaywalking is for selfish and impatient people who are bad at assessing risk. Unless the street is completely empty, I guess.

As someone who has never lived in a city this is strange to me. I live in a relatively dense part of Louisiana, but around here you couldn't walk at all without jaywalking. There aren't even sidewalks in a lot of places. You just walk along the side of the road.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#200

Post by ssl-3 »

nomel wrote: post #190
ssl-3 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, too. But -- in California -- it remains illegal to do so in sections of roadway that are betwixt two traffic lights, no matter how safe an convenient it is. (We've got very similarly-worded restrictions here in Ohio, too, FWIW.)

> Between adjacent intersections controlled by traffic control signal devices Does this mean diagonally? What's the distance to "adjacent"? One city block? Two? Does this mean that jaywalking is still practically illegal in most dense cities/downtown areas? The lack of clarity is pretty frustrating with many of these laws. I understand the practical need for wiggle room, but this almost seems like a trap! My naive in…

> An “intersection” is the area embraced within the prolongation of the lateral curb lines, or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways, of two highways which join one another at approximately right angles or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

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