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Buy payphones and retire

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Re: Buy payphones and retire

#191

Post by dataflow »

andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

Basically every sentence I read in this comment has an enormous hole in the logic or premise.

> On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt.

This is a non-sequitur. The world isn't binary. Whether this happens depends entirely on how much passive income people can generate, and a whole host of other factors that are unaccounted for.

> People make things; if people don't make things, then we don't eat, we don't drink.

Again, your premise is flawed. Giving everyone (say) a dollar a month doesn't mean people will stop making things. It depends how much they earn, and a ton of other factors.

> The categorical imperative roughly says that something is moral only if its universal adoption would benefit society.

No, that's not what it says. What is says is that the rules you live by should be universally applicable. Positive or negative effects on society are beside the point.

> So there is a break there.

This is a giant leap in your logic. You have neither shown that this wouldn't benefit society, nor that there would be a break if it didn't.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#192

Post by seizethecheese »

thrance wrote: post #120
andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

It's funny how often you hear "put your money to work". Money doesn't work, people do! If you receive a monthly income by doing nothing, you're taking from someone else's work.

> Money doesn't work, people do!

Not really true at all. Production is almost always a combination of labor and capital. Consider a restaurant. People are working there but so is a stove, aka capital aka money.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#193

Post by Ctyra »

SirMaster wrote: post #182
stonemetal12 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of 72 suggest 6% doubles in 12 years not 5. Meaning you have ~400K at 50 making 24 grand a year.

It's 6% income plus a doubling of the investment. 100K after 5 years became about 230K. 30K of passive income that was essentially tax free because of the offset from the depreciation of the property and the assets within the property that depreciate at a significantly faster rate than the rental property. And then with all the improvements made to the property and the increase in rent that the substantial improvemen…

Do you mind sharing some details on what kind of real estate investments these are?

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#194

Post by __turbobrew__ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #149
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and additionally the total investment about doubles in roughly 5 years That is a big assumption. What happens during the next real estate bust and your real estate value goes down to 1/4 of its prior worth? You are now set back 10 years. I think residential real estate is a bad bet long term. As real estate gets more expensive and more and more young people cannot afford to buy there is going to be more political c…

Real estate is special because of multiple federal government and state government policies limiting (subsidizing) borrowers’ risk, allowing borrowers to lever without commensurate increases in risk. The federal government taxpayers (especially future ones) provide enormous subsidies in the way of 30 year fixed rate loans with no prepayment penalty, and no risk of having the loan be called. Many state governments mak…

Yea I think that is the crux of it. You are using social programs designed to keep a roof over people’s head for financial gain.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#195

Post by lawrenceyan »

andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

Don't let this make you shy away from the idea of investing though! Remember that fiat currency as a general concept ensures that your base unit of value is constantly depreciating.

Even if there was zero growth in the overall economy, because of how we've structured our financial system, asset prices as a whole will always go up because they are pegged to a depreciating unit of value.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#196

Post by krazii »

apeescape wrote: post #85
andai wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just put up some initial capital in exchange for even more money back Isn't that how index funds work?

It's not guaranteed that you get more money back from an index fund (unless you've found an arbitrage, but that's a corner case). Even the bigger and stabler indexes like the S&P500 have their ups and downs, both on a daily level but also over longer time spans. The long-term trend has been positive for these types of indexes, but remember that past performance doesn't guarantee future profits :)

Sure, it is not guaranteed profit, but it is certainly not "always a scam" as previous poster put it. It is very likely a way to make profit.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#197

Post by Brian_K_White »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #104
bbarn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a non-technical friend that runs a vending machine business. He targets exclusively small locations like gas stations, bodegas, etc. He makes a great living, but he's also started farming out filling and collection to employees now because it's a lot of driving and work to do it.

That makes no sense to me. Why would a gas station or bodega invite an automated competitor onto their property? Unless the vending machines offer some merchandise the store is unable/unwilling to carry?

A few things:

- the machine pays for it's space through rent or share of the take obviously

- think of it more like sharing the custom rather than giving away the custom. sharing benefits both parties just like in any other cooperative deal. the machines are something that some customers are attracted to just like the regular shelves

- think of it also like an extra employee for free. A very stupid employee that can only do one thing, but it can always reliably do that one thing without supervision or breaks or pay. Some sales would not have happened anyway, but the machine took care of some customers by itself, and the shop owner makes less from it, but it also cost them less, and the total package of amenities presented by the shop is more than without the machines.

Some people actively do not want to deal with a clerk even if they are fast and good natured and there is no one else in line to make them wait. For that matter, not just some people but almost everyone feels like that at least once in a while, because every day is not a happy day. Come to think of it, in that sense, it's not even just about sales but about serving a need that costs more or less nothing to serve. Your shop is simply a bit more useful for everyone around by including a bit of this option.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#198

Post by mcmoor »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #166
sokoloff wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically true, this could still be a great trade for all involved. If you invest in shares in a company, you are a link in the chain to that company existing at all, employing people, serving customers, and paying a dividend to shareholders. Employees have a job and income without the need to come up with the initial capital to start the venture and the associated risk of no income for a while. If you invest…

Another tangible example is renting a tractor to a farmer that couldn’t otherwise afford one. Their income from crop production goes up (even after tractor rental expenses) and society also gets more food.

Communists will say this is still rent seeking and the tractor should be seized and given to the farmer.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#199

Post by KK7NIL »

jancsika wrote: post #186
KK7NIL wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your average retiree should not hold stocks as they usually can't survive a 10+ year drawdown (which, as I just showed you, happens a lot more than people think, even in the survivor biased S&P500 example). This is why target retirement funds transition to safer fixed income assets as the target date approaches. You're also forgetting that inflation doesn't just affect assets, it also affects living necessities (and…

> Your average retiree should not hold stocks as they usually can't survive a 10+ year drawdown (which, as I just showed you, happens a lot more than people think, even in the survivor biased S&P500 example). This is why target retirement funds transition to safer fixed income assets as the target date approaches. Target retirement funds transition to a safer mix of bonds and stocks as the target date approaches. Eve…

> Even VTINX has a conservative mix of 30% stocks.

Your average retiree does not live off of VTINX.

> I'd say if you cannot afford to hold any stocks you're probably not yet ready to retire.

There's so many variables here that it's really not worth discussing. I'll just say that investing in stocks for retirement is a pretty recent fascination that is far less common outside of the US and in poorer regions in the US.

Plenty of American retirees (maybe even a majority) own little to no stocks and live on a fixed income, making them very vulnerable to inflation (which was the whole basis of OP's idea that old people are holding up the stock market).

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#200

Post by s1artibartfast »

shnock wrote: post #84
hifromwork wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just put up some initial capital in exchange for even more money back, is always a scam. some people might come out ahead sometimes, but more people will lose than win. How so? My all-world index funds are doing pretty well. For more risk averse, almost every buyer of USA governmental bonds gets "even more money back" in exchange for the initial capital. I don't think that's a scam either.

Not everyone can buy USA bonds. Is the population of winners and losers all humanity?

The money that is used to buy the bonds goes to the government, and then into the pockets of the citizens.

The bond holders tend to be the tax prayers as well, so it is almost like a partial rebate.

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