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The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

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Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#191

Post by shprd »

mtndew4brkfst wrote: post #190
shprd wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Where did I say they don't contribute? I said they don't contribute beyond their mouth > You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? It's a marketing strategy, first and foremost. If they didn't offer it, an alternative would come along and attract the crowd. You know what's disingenuous? Claiming it's a contribution when you're doing it as mark…

So if I go successfully make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel, and it is exclusively motivated by furthering my business needs instead of altruism, but happens to incidentally benefit others too - do you consider that a "contribution" under your mental model? If not, what's the distinction?

> make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel

In your example, you're contributing to other people projects so yes it would be contribution right of the bat. That's completely different than the case with ACF.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#192

Post by mtndew4brkfst »

shprd wrote: post #191
mtndew4brkfst wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I go successfully make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel, and it is exclusively motivated by furthering my business needs instead of altruism, but happens to incidentally benefit others too - do you consider that a "contribution" under your mental model? If not, what's the distinction?

> make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel In your example, you're contributing to other people projects so yes it would be contribution right of the bat. That's completely different than the case with ACF.

And WPEngine does not own Wordpress or its ecosystem, right? So that's also "other people's projects" if they produce something of value to its ends users?

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#193

Post by jart »

aimazon wrote: post #179
jart wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be held to the same standards. If my professed principle was to be evil, then would you judge me negatively if I acted good? I release software under a permissive license too. But I understand the only reason I'm able to do it, is because companies like Google and Mozilla believe in supporting people like me. There's this unwritten rule that the most successful people in our society should be philanth…

If I release a fox into my hen house, who is at fault for the death of my hens: me or the fox?

I don't think WPEngine is a fox. I think it's more like a factory farm moves in next door and sells your customers eggs at a lower price, because it keeps more hens cramped in metal cages. So eventually your family farm has to close its hen house and all your hens end up at the factory farm.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#194

Post by chiefalchemist »

aimazon wrote: post #178
shprd wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hold them to very different standards It's foolish to support a private equity against the guy because you hold him to a higher standards. It doesn't even make sense. But this discussion is unlikely to lead anywhere.

Matt isn't being held to a higher standard, he's being held to a different standard, a standard he chose. WP Engine is a company that chose to build a business around a piece of software released under a license that permits their commercialisation of the software. Matt is an individual who chose to release software under a license that permits companies to build a business around the software and has then chosen to…

And thus the conclusion is: It's about money. Matt is having licensor remorse. He retroactively wants to change the license and the terms.

Clearly, this isn't about OSS or PE, etc. It's about the depth of Matt's pockets. He might be drinking his own Kool Aid but few others are.

A fork of WP might not be as "productive" but at least it won't have to carry a wild monkey Matt on its back.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#195

Post by shprd »

mtndew4brkfst wrote: post #192
shprd wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make a feature addition to ie Kubernetes, or the Linux kernel In your example, you're contributing to other people projects so yes it would be contribution right of the bat. That's completely different than the case with ACF.

And WPEngine does not own Wordpress or its ecosystem, right? So that's also "other people's projects" if they produce something of value to its ends users?

> if they produce something of value to its ends users?

No, that's would be their value proposition or what every company on earth have been doing since inception, filling a gap in the market.

You seem to be claiming that their mere existence in the ecosystem would be a contribution, even if they were closed source. They would be providing value and attracting users in a butterfly effect style. Sure, that help and have a positive impact but is it a contribution to an open source project and the ecosystem?

My model is fairly simple, you can't claim credit for something if you did it involuntarily or with a different intention or it happened as n-level side effect of what you are trying to do.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#196

Post by Brian_K_White »

luuurker wrote: post #186
Brian_K_White wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where in the world, how the hell did you get the idea that stealing free code isn't stealing?

The code was shared under a GPL license. If the license allows you to reuse, fork, etc, then it makes no sense to accuse you of "stealing". Obviously there's more to it here as they've also taken over the plugin's reviews, users, etc, but the code is GPL.

Violating the terms (gpl) and taking over the name/identity/accreditation are what's stealing. Not merely using or redistributing.

It's not only stealing, it's an even worse, exceptionally low form of stealing when something is already free and yet you still choose to steal it.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#197

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

shprd wrote: post #168
mthoms wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement. This dispute could have, and should have, been resolved without involving… literally everyone.

> There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement. Exactly, if that was the only thing WPE has leeched we wouldn't be here. They were tolerated for years but they kept digging more and more.

> They were tolerated for years

This sounds like dictator speak. "Tolerated" by who? The community embraced them, it's matt and his private-equity-associated, for-profit corporation that didn't like their success.

Should matt have such a veto power over what the community wants? Put another way, the community has tolerated matt's behavior, but he keeps digging more and more – how do we stop his bad behavior?

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#198

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

mardifoufs wrote: post #167
maxloh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Matt want 8% revenue directly straight into Automattic's account.

That became a thing because he felt like they didn't contribute to WordPress. Like, that's the entire reason behind that (very weird imo) request for a royalty. I'm not sure if it's true, but there were talks about WPEngine devs basically not being allocated any dev time on WordPress anymore (whereas Automattic devs spend tens of hours a week on the actual OSS project). That was one of the catalyst behind the whole d…

> That became a thing because he felt like they didn't contribute to WordPress. Like, that's the entire reason behind that (very weird imo) request for a royalty.

I think it's the other way around: the (false) claims about WPEngine not contributing became a thing because they refused his demands to direct 8% of their revenue into matt's private-equity-backed pockets.

It would make no sense otherwise: "you aren't contributing to the community, so contribute to my for-profit corporation instead"? If matt really cared about the community*, wouldn't the appropriate demand be for WPEngine to contribute 8% to the community, instead of to matt?

*: yes, I recognize that, in reality, matt's repeated actions harming the community in service of himself have made clear that he cares more about himself than the community.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#199

Post by justin66 »

raverbashing wrote: post #147
justin66 wrote: post #57

Imagine being an Automattic employee who turned down the severance offer, realizing only now that you're on the train to crazytown.

To be honest, it was obvious that things were going the wrong way even before this The people that stayed are probably the ones that feel "married to the job" (pro-tip: you aren't your job)

The point of my comment was that it would really hurt, coming to these seemingly obvious conclusions after your friends or coworkers had already bailed. I just assume the severance offer is no longer in effect.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#200

Post by bastawhiz »

microtonal wrote: post #148
bastawhiz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm hearing is that Automattic didn't buy ACF.

I think they meant that WPEngine bought ACF: https://wpengine.com/blog/wp-engine-acquires-delicious-brain...

Yes. And Automattic didn't buy it, they stole it.
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