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Being Raised by the Internet

jimmyhmiller.github.io

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Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#191

Post by kragen »

malfist wrote: post #165
kragen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kagi is explicitly not a community; it's a service you pay for. it's organized around a them/us distinction, and the users are the (atomized) outgroup, individually paying the ingroup for the service provided by that ingroup there is nothing wrong with that; it's a perfectly good way of organizing things. but it's important not to confuse it with the relationship between, for example, linux users, any of whom is free…

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. Kagi is indeed a paid service and not a community. I was saying it has a way to find small web type sites, but lamenting the fact that part of what made those sites so useful in the past was a tiny community, is gone, and probably not coming back.

i did! thank you for explaining

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#192

Post by kragen »

rockskon wrote: post #188
kragen wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

monsieur, what good is a new-born baby?

LLMs are not intellence. They are not AGI. They do not have the reasoning skills of a baby. This is not something they will "grow into". No amount of additional training data in the world will turn LLMs into AGI. Any argument to the contrary is pure, 100% copium to justify the hundreds of billions of dollars industry has poured into this technology.

hot air balloons aren't birds either, monsieur

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#193

Post by caseyy »

RajT88 wrote: post #183
caseyy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> although it is that those who most firmly enforce it also cherish silly habits like saying "bring your whole self to work." It is my understanding that about 50% of the cultural values companies prescribe to their teams are values they don't want to see adopted. Speaking up when something is wrong, open door policies, and work-life balance are the usual suspects. Continuous learning and development are also values…

> Continuous learning and development are also values that employees are often invited to practice, though not when there's work to do! These are the things you're supposed to do on the evenings and weekends. Honestly, I'd love it if companies took the tack of giving employees projects based on the skills they want them to develop, instead of the skills they already have.

> These are the things you're supposed to do on the evenings and weekends.

Hmm, I wouldn't say so. In many countries it is illegal for an employer to prescribe what their employees should do on evenings and weekends, including up-skilling. Handing out promotions based on what an employee does outside work hours would quickly lead to labor disputes and penalties.

I don't deny that employers have this expectation, but it's often another case where if they actually enacted it, it would result in fines. And even in countries where this doesn't matter from a labor law perspective, a continuous improvement grindset culture (where employees work to improve for their work duties on a significant percentage of evenings and weekends) would often lead to morale loss, employee self-neglect and burn-out. Imagine how it would feel to have responsibilities after work (spouse, kids, parents, community commitments, chores, etc) when everyone is grinding to get ahead. You'd have no career prospects, too - a recipe for disengagement. Once again, a company would not actually want the consequences of enforcing this team value.

A better value would be that the company should provide improvement opportunities for their teams (conference tickets, time off work for professional certificates, etc), but same as before - they wouldn't want the real consequences (additional time off work) for having the team actually live such values.

I don't think anyone in most companies truly meaningfully lives those values, nor do they work with these values in mind. They may be slightly swayed towards doing something in line with the values ahead of their next performance review, but beyond that - not really. And that's best for everyone, including the company.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#194

Post by throwaway2037 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #159
throwanem wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Servers are overly friendly and will interrupt conversations to ask if the food is up to standard, etc. The median American in any restaurant with chairs not bolted to the floor can be assumed to operate on roughly the level of a marginally clever, but ill-parented and intemperate, four- or five-year-old child. Even nice places have to deal with this, because neither the child nor the American recognizes any such d…

I'll take even the worst, unkempt dining experience at a deep south waffle house over the treatment that europoor Parisians give to those who don't speak perfect french at even high end restaurants in the heart of Paris. Also, foie gras, traditional veal, and many other European delicacies are disgusting (ethically). Coincidental, even the ghettos of Baltimore/Detroit likely have a higher GDP per capita than most of…

    > higher GDP per capita than most of continental Europe
I once read that the cost of university alone in the US explains a large part of this difference. (I cannot evaluate that claim, as I am not a trained economist.) In many European countries (there are 50!), university is nearly free, when compared the the extortionary rates in the US.

    > increasingly hilarious US-euro monetary exchange rate
I have seen this on HN a few times in similar reactionary screed. If you look at the USD/EUR FX rate since 2015, it is pretty stable at 1.10.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#196

Post by xp84 »

TZubiri wrote: post #133
pushupentry1219 wrote: post #119

As someone of the younger generation, I think "raised by the internet" these days is extremely toxic and non-productive not at all what the author here is talking about in this lovely post. When someone says "I was raised by the internet", I immediately think: social media addiction, 4chan and other online obscenities. But this is completely based on my own personal experience. My point here is not related to this lo…

"When someone says "I was raised by the internet", I immediately think: social media addiction, 4chan and other online obscenities." Yes, that is definitely personal, there are many other types of internet upbringings. Take a look at the most viewed videos on youtube and you will be enlightened into a more recent type of internet upbringing. The most popular category of videos on youtube are baby videos. Parents lite…

Yeah, truly revolting what gets the views on YouTube and TikTok now. Given how young the kids are who are so often given unfettered access. Too many parents wear their “clueless about technology” badges with joking pride and put no effort into learning how to set up effective parental limits.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#197

Post by xp84 »

andersa wrote: post #161
ndavis wrote: post #156

I was booting Linux while sleeping in a car, and in and out of motels, eating from food banks, with drug addicted parents, as a teenager. There was something to "the internet" back in the day as a way to cope when faced with that sort of situation. The author is not alone. We were blessed to have a computer through it all. I hope "kids these days" have the same opportunity with their phones.

Spoiler: They don't. The phones are hostile to experimentation and the social media apps they will use to kill time are designed to get them stuck in an infinite loop of watching pointless "content" and as many ads as possible.

^ (+5, insightful)

Yeah. This hurts how true it is. I’m an early-mid millennial, very modest social class so I got some access to dial-up at age 14 and broadband at about 16. We were just explorers back then. The sophistication aimed at us was no fancier than that of the Saturday morning cartoon ads. I’m sure the people at Yahoo and AOL wanted us to use their IM program and watch some of quaint banner ads. But most of the Internet then was exploring knowledge and fandoms, and connecting with those around the globe who spoke your language and also loved what you love. Most of the most fun social activity back then for young people spun out of places like music chat rooms and music/band forums, because 14-year olds believe their music taste is the deepest and most personal thing about them.

Contrast to today: kids now, many from near birth, are test subjects in a million experiments every day, designed by hostile bots and even more hostile humans to addict them and feed obsessions all in service of revenue optimization. The biggest experiment of all is the meta one: what will happen to this generation raised in this unprecedented way?? Btw — nothing would make me happier than Gen Alpha being super successful. So I hope I’m Old Man Shakes Fist At Cloud here.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#199

Post by lifter3101 »

pushupentry1219 wrote: post #119

As someone of the younger generation, I think "raised by the internet" these days is extremely toxic and non-productive not at all what the author here is talking about in this lovely post. When someone says "I was raised by the internet", I immediately think: social media addiction, 4chan and other online obscenities. But this is completely based on my own personal experience. My point here is not related to this lo…

I’m pretty sure the author of the post would have had a similar trajectory had he been growing up now. People who are innately curious and self motivated will always find a Linux networking tutorial. Even if it comes in a form of a TikTok video and not a bunch of burned CDs.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#200

Post by ghodith »

malfist wrote: post #122
lll-o-lll wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you hit a physical or health issue that takes that away, or dramatically reduces the amount of time you can spend on it? This isn’t hypothetical; I have worked with people who’ve had to quit this form of work for the following reasons: Carpal tunnel that prevented using keyboard and mouse, brain injury, neck injury that made it impossible to sit at a computer (or desk), long Covid and “brain fog”. I imagine th…

This is way off in a tangent but that's kinda why I think a UBI won't lead to mass unemployment. So many people self identify with their work that it's almost always the first question when you're getting to know someone.

For the first generation of UBI recipients, sure. I'm more concerned about the people that will grow up having never worked.
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