Live data from Hacker News

Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

matthewball.co

191–200 of 878 posts

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payment is the hardest part in this space. Somehow OnlyFans had the privilege to use Stripe for all their transactions. It's beyond knowing the business model, I guess the founder were at the right place and right time and knew the right people to make this venture succeed. Also, the marketing, how the heck did these guy blow up so fast. The funds for marketing and all, it's not cheap!

> Somehow OnlyFans had the privilege to use Stripe for all their transactions. Is this accurate? Because (a) Stripe explicitly says they won't be a payment processor for adult-oriented businesses, and (b) I read somewhere (this was a while back) that OnlyFans had a slew of payment processors that they would rotate/diversify whenever things got too dicey with a specific processor (e.g. too many chargebacks)

Yes.

It's like international law:

There are fixed rules, until there aren't.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#192
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, those civilians who can think for themselves, especially about the consequences of their actions, are clearly in advantage. I am lacking empathy for those who are apparently so hooked up to the here-and-now that they seem to ignore the future. If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats fine, societies have all sorts of norms we all need to learn.

> If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats [sic] fine, […] How is that 'fine'? I would like to see a future where someone doing sex work to make ends meet (or even as a freely chosen profession!) is not ostracised for it. Sex is part of society whether you want it or not, and so is paying for sexual acts.

> Sex is part of society whether you want it or not, and so is paying for sexual acts.

Yes, and this seems to be a discussion of whether people want it or not. I don't think paid sex acts ruin the world. Some people probably need it in place of real intimacy, for their own mental health. I still think it's generally scummy and unproductive. Then again, I think all sorts of businesses can be described that way. Snake oil has been killing it for as long as commerce has been around. Another example: if you go around gutting productive companies to line your own pockets, e.g. buying & dismantling competitors to stop competition, I see that as a greater moral failing than baiting lonely people with sex appeal.

It's common that people forget or fail to understand that business is a way to cooperatively shape life into something desirable, and instead see it as a way to win at others expense.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for every part of the human experience. People discriminate because of religion, etc. Sounds like you care too much about what other people think of you. Anyways, my point is this sort of thing is rapidly becoming something nobody cares about, and that's due to feminism and it's a good thing.

While I somewhat agree with you, feminism and related ideologies created a whole new network of concepts of what is good and wrong, and these can bite you as much as the old prejudices. A good example is the Harry Potter lady: while I don't necessarily agree with her view, I do understand her concern and the right to express it - but for many people it's a criminal offense. Almost as if we replaced one cage with anot…

What are "related ideologies" of feminism?

By all accounts, JK Rowling hasn't suffered any negative consequence of her transphobia, she has even marketed it and is benefiting from it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ink-Black-Heart-Robert-Galbraith-eb... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Troubled-Blood-Cormoran-Strike-5-eb...

And Harry Potter merchandising and derived works are still selling like pancakes.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then there is also the increasing number of women who don't want a boyfriend either because they want a same sex relationship or because they can't find a man on their educational level, since women graduate at a higher rate. The reason is mostly irrelevant, what matters is that supply and demand are imbalanced and one side has to deal with not getting what they want in one way or another.

Education level is less important than equality is. Marriage is traditionally a terrible bargain for women, but it was the only choice they were allowed to make. Now, they can make their money and buy property and have kids on their own. A lot of men haven't realized the era of the provider is over and dead, and they're now optional. They have to make women want to be with them, and a lot of women just aren't willing…

Good luck buying a family home as a single mom with today's property prices. Really it's a rich person thing, not available to ordinary women.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then there is also the increasing number of women who don't want a boyfriend either because they want a same sex relationship or because they can't find a man on their educational level, since women graduate at a higher rate. The reason is mostly irrelevant, what matters is that supply and demand are imbalanced and one side has to deal with not getting what they want in one way or another.

Education level is less important than equality is. Marriage is traditionally a terrible bargain for women, but it was the only choice they were allowed to make. Now, they can make their money and buy property and have kids on their own. A lot of men haven't realized the era of the provider is over and dead, and they're now optional. They have to make women want to be with them, and a lot of women just aren't willing…

>lot of men haven't realized the era of the provider is over and dead, and they're now optional.

Cool, child support and alimony optional now. Right? Because it's always easy to be independent with OPM. People forget single moms became far more practiced after the state incentivized breaking up families.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#197
post #118

Not a moralistic take, but one issue that interests me is the second-order impacts associated with the long tail of producers in OF who do not make a career from it. With traditional adult entertainment, creators are aware of the social ramifications (e.g., social stigma, familial ostracism, difficulty dealing with the future, and so on), and there is a decent theoretical economic framework to measure that. I am not…

> the additional toll it will take on the creators in terms of social ostracism, future prospects, future opportunities, and mental health. Is it such a big problem nowadays as it used to be? My impression is that society in general, and younger people in particular, have become more tolerant of such things; at least in Northern Europe.

that's the thing, the more people do it the more it gets accepted. the same is happening with drugs for example.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "to make ends meet". OF work allows people with no skills to get income in line with the top 10th or even 1st percentile of the population. Would you rather be flipping burgers all day for 30k or would you rather take a few nudes every week and make 300k?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out an absurd fraction of those 300k is just straight up money laundering. Who is actually gonna be able to verify the value of someone allegedly showing their tits to a whale at 3am? The fact this all passed through traditional financial networks with a clean and reportable earnings report at the end is just pure gold. OF is like the wet dream of a drug dealer or whoever else with a b…

I agree with what you say but we know enough about youtubers and mobile gaming to safely assume that the numbers in this space are wild. I remember on Pewdiepie's first ever charity YouTube stream he was printing thousands per second via donos

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That issue exists in the context of all other novel "social media" careers as well.

not to the extent of having a video published where you have sex - to put it mildly.

Yeah but having sex on tape isn't something special or shameful.

Re: Breaking Down OnlyFans' Economics

#200
post #164
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone has a serious pitch to the tune of "I've got enough leverage with key players in Stripe to make an adult site work", everything afterwards would get pretty easy. Finding money to advertise is no problem, these sites are in a great position if they can work around the payment systems. The difficulty becomes the moat.

As far as I understand it isn't Stripe setting policy on this, it's Mastercard/Visa. Though presumably, ultimately, it's really government.

It’s a bit of a mix. Mastercard/Visa do set some policies around this, but only due to, quite frankly undemocratic, political pressure. There been a few documented cases of particularly puritanical US politicians sending letters and making arbitrary public claims to “embarrass” Mastercard/Visa into restricting certain types of perfectly legal commerce. The impact of these policies is a bit arbitrary, as Mastercard/Visa generally aren’t in the business of restricting commerce (and thus their cut of the profits). So they tend to have short lived, but high impact, consequences on specific individuals or groups.

Really though, the primary reason why a company like stripe don’t want to be involved with these types of business, is the very high levels of fraud and chargebacks that come with the territory. Turns out people get embarrassed about porn appearing on their bank statements, and often put in dubious chargeback claims. Not to mention many banks have their fraud controls set to a hair-trigger for anything porn related.

The end result is processing these transactions is normally very expensive and high risk, due to the fraud and chargebacks. Which in turn put you at high risk of being kicked of the Mastercard/Visa networks. Mastercard/Visa mostly don’t give a shit what you’re selling, as long as you pay your dues. But they do get very upset when it looks like your business might threaten the perceived safety of credit/debit cards. As usual, protecting profits is treated much more seriously, than preventing any perceived moral failing.

As for governments, they officially don’t care. Selling porn is perfectly legal in the western world, so it only individuals in government who choose to abuse their positions to enforce their personal moral code on others (beyond what the law requires) that creates any kind of government “policy”.

Post reply on HN