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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#191

Post by pjmlp »

aspeckt112 wrote: post #171
pjmlp wrote: post #161

Yet another piece of Xamarin/Mono that falls down. No wonder Miguel de Icaza is now focused on Swift, Godot and Apple's ecosystem, all the promises done at Xamarin acquisition time are gone now. Mono Develop killed, after being renamed into VS4Mac, gone through a rewrite, only to be killed shortly after the rewrite reached 1.0. Xamarin.Forms rewriten into MAUI, with incompatible APIs. MSIL Linker had a better chance…

Based on how Xamarin performed prior to the MS acquisition, I'd guess dead. The license cost was high, and the MS acquisition came right around the time React Native and Flutter started to enter v1. I think they'd of been blown out of the water pretty quickly. At least Microsoft allowed Xamarin to get into enterprise .NET shops pretty quickly. There's a lot of B2B form based apps written in Xamarin. I worked on a pre…

Ever heard of Rotor?

https://www.codeguru.com/dotnet/net-nuts-bolts-the-joy-of-ro...

Or DotGNU?

https://www.gnu.org/software/dotgnu/

What happened to Xamarin looks like Microsoft took whatever IP was relevant, and left everything else go, which this decision is a confirmation thereof.

It is kind of interesting to see Miguel's feedback, now that he his allowed to talk about how things went down.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#192

Post by starik36 »

pdmccormick wrote: post #176

I'm genuinely curious, for someone who develops web application backends and larger distributed systems & infrastructure, predominantly using Go and Python, exclusively targeting Linux, is there anything in the .NET ecosystem that anyone would recommend I take a look at? Many thanks.

.NET Core is my favorite way to quickly implement an app to run on a Raspberry Pi. Just basically copy & paste into a folder, chmod the executable and off you go.

I have a number of these devices running in the house doing various things.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#194

Post by dwoldrich »

dmw_ng wrote: post #186
pdmccormick wrote: post #176

I'm genuinely curious, for someone who develops web application backends and larger distributed systems & infrastructure, predominantly using Go and Python, exclusively targeting Linux, is there anything in the .NET ecosystem that anyone would recommend I take a look at? Many thanks.

Modern .net on Linux is lovely, you can initialize a project, pull in the S3 client and write a 1-3 line C# program that AOT compiles to a single binary with none of the perf issues or GIL hand-wringing that plagues life in Python. Given modern Python means type annotations everywhere, the convenience edge between it and modern C# (which dispenses with much of the javaesque boilerplate) is surprisingly thin, and the…

Do your civic duty and disable telemetry everywhere you go. :)

export DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT=1

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#195

Post by nine_k »

shopvaccer wrote: post #181
kelnos wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Microsoft has finally realized that its animus toward projects like Wine and pre-acquisition Mono was ultimately unproductive, and a net negative for Microsoft itself. I still don't trust MS's motives in general, but I think they at least recognize that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a g…

>that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a good thing for them. I'm not sure if it benefits microsoft in the long term, because the "backwards compatibility" features of Wine need to be implemented in Windows already as a part of the system. So in the long run wine/proton/mono will implement windows…

Windows NT (2000, XP, etc) used to include an emulator allowing to run DOS apps and win16 apps. I don't see why running older / obsoleted win32 APIs through an emulation layer won't be a good approach. Maybe even by adopting and running Wine.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#196

Post by School-Cotton »

jcranmer wrote: post #93
bmacho wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what ’free as in puppies’ mean. Free software is typically described as "free as in freedom" or "free as in free beer". (This is probably a limitation of English tho, my language has 2 different words for permissions and costlessness.) GP above proposes the "free as in puppy" variant, which means that it is a burden of maintenance. I can't recall any real examples for this.

If you want to be pedantic, English does have distinct words for the two connotations of free--"liberal" and "gratuitous". Although it should also be immediately obvious why those words aren't preferred either: "liberal" also has several other connotations (to the point that a "Liberal Party" could be almost anywhere on the political spectrum), while "gratuitous" tends to lean more towards "unnecessary" than "free of…

> English does have distinct words for the two connotations of free--"liberal" and "gratuitous".

Sorry but no it doesn’t. These words have the other meanings you mentioned, but they don’t include either of the meanings of “free”.

If you said you were giving away “gratuitous software”, native English speakers wouldn’t know what you were talking about. The only way to understand it would be to realize that those words are etymologically cognate to words in European languages that do have those meanings.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#197

Post by mark336 »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #167
qingcharles wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think MS wants you to use this? https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/maui I was pleased to see WinForms got some updates in .NET9. I really thought they'd left it. I still use it every day when I need to spin up a new tool to do some little task that needs a GUI.

The only people wanting anyone to use MAUI are the MAUI team and even then only half heartedly. Microsoft Build this year only discussed WinUI and WPF even. https://www.reddit.com/r/dotnet/comments/1cy2u6l/microsoft_h...

Good, I use MVC and it sucks.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#199

Post by paranoidrobot »

Kye wrote: post #116
Blot2882 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mono was, but newer versions of .NET run on Linux and Mac. You can install at the link below, and then making a project is just `dotnet new console` and run with `dotnet run` https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux

For historical context: this was before the conclusion of the antitrust case that led Microsoft to start softening its stance toward open source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . This was the same year Antitrust came out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) Any support for open source or cross-platform stuff was a bulwark against claims of monopoly abuse, but none of it wor…

> Nowadays it sounds like .NET Core + third-party GUI libraries is the way to go.

For reference for those unfamiliar with the terms:

.NET Core was the name given to the cross-platform fork of the .NET runtime.

It was forked out of .NET 4.x and dropped support for a lot of things in the first versions.

It ran on various distributions of Linux and MacOS.

At the same time there were forks of other libraries/frameworks in the .NET ecosystem to have 'Core' variants. Often these were dropping support for legacy parts of their code so that they could run on Core.

Later versions of .NET Core brought over support for a many of the things that had been dropped.

.NET Core and .NET had stand-alone versions until .NET Core was renamed to . NET and became .NET 5.

So, if you want to do the most modern cross-platform C# you would use .NET 9.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#200

Post by Kwpolska »

Uvix wrote: post #84
jabl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know little of dotnet beyond trying various semirandom things to make some .net apps work on linux. With that out of the way, my understanding is that - Originally there was .Net Framework, by microsoft, for windows only. Versions 1.0 -> 4.8 were released. - Then mono came along as a somewhat clean-room reimplementation of .Net framework, focusing on making it run on Linux. Though mono does not implement windows gu…

They dropped the "Core" suffix with v5 in 2020, since at that point there was no longer naming confusion. While Microsoft doesn't have their own framework supporting Linux GUI apps on the modern .NET runtime (MAUI does Mac/iOS/Android but not Linux), there are third-party ones like Avalonia.

Dropping the "Core" suffix introduced more naming confusion. Before that, ".NET" was often used as a shorthand for the (now legacy) .NET Framework. Which makes googling for Core-specific things much harder than it needs to be.
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