Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 697 posts

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#191

Post by InclinedPlane »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #144
kulkarnic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. I think the devil will be in the details, but this sure is interesting, because Apple's strategy is "people should buy multiple devices-- iPad, Macbook Air, Mac Pro...". MSFT wants one device that is a lot more versatile.

Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. Apple Newton MessagePad, 1993. It had a stylus, handwriting recognition, you could use it with just your fingertips, and you could connect an external keyboard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/atow/4314242537/ That was almost twenty years a go. Newton was a very expensive experiment for Apple, and they have learned the hard wa…

That was an era of different technology. Stylus alone (resistive touch) is not a good general purpose input system but works really well for inputting hand writing or drawing. Capacitive touch lacks fine resolution so it's not good for drawing but it's fantastic for UI because it supports multi-touch. Today we don't have to be shackled by the technological limits that held the Newton back. The Surface has both types of touch sensors so it can match the appropriate sensor to the appropriate use (drawing/writing or touch-based UI). Also, modern mobile computers have vastly more processing power and storage capabilities so, ironically, handwriting recognition is not necessary. The raw input can simply be stored away (as a vector graphic, perhaps, or even just as raw pixels).

Also, the general pattern of "someone tried that once, and they failed, so nobody should ever do that" is a really terrible way to go about engineering. Wile E. Coyote should not be a roll model. Just because someone failed at something similar. Just because YOU failed at something similar, doesn't mean you should give up on the whole idea.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#192

Post by [deleted] »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #117

So, let me see if I got this right. From the live blog: Surface for Windows RT coming in 32GB and 64GB models. Priced "like comparable tablets based on ARM." This is the one that won't run Windows programs. Right now, there are little to no apps that are made for it. It's also the one without full HD screen. And they'll still try to sell them for $400-$600. Pro coming in 64GB and 128GB models, will be priced on par w…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#193

Post by photon137 »

DeepDuh wrote: post #160
photon137 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All-in-all, it's a big, big play on Windows 8/RT. A kernel that can perform optimally on ARM/Intel on mobile devices and also support PC devices is a huge achievement - the entire thread-library would have to be one super-cool piece of software engineering. That and elsewhere within the OS, is where the innovation lies, in my opinion. And now you can see why JavaScript was made a first-class language for the WinRT (n…

DOES it perform well though? And by that I mean things like native hardware video decompression without having too much impact on the battery, real-timeyness of the touch UI and overall low power consumption. These are IMO the underlying technologies where Apple innovated the most with their iOS platform and these metrics are yet to beat by others. Do we already have hands on tests with windows 8 on ARM? I at least h…

"native hardware video decompression without having too much impact on the battery" - that's actually where ARM and Intel innovated, not Apple - MS is probably mature enough to deal with processors at least as well as, if not better than, Apple.

As regarding tests, I haven't had access to devices running Windows on ARM - WOA is something of a mystery - they haven't released a full WOA SDK as far as I'm aware - although they do provide a cross-compiler for ARM in the upcoming Visual Studio. So yes, no concrete numbers here.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#194

Post by esolyt »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #144
kulkarnic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. I think the devil will be in the details, but this sure is interesting, because Apple's strategy is "people should buy multiple devices-- iPad, Macbook Air, Mac Pro...". MSFT wants one device that is a lot more versatile.

Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. Apple Newton MessagePad, 1993. It had a stylus, handwriting recognition, you could use it with just your fingertips, and you could connect an external keyboard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/atow/4314242537/ That was almost twenty years a go. Newton was a very expensive experiment for Apple, and they have learned the hard wa…

Stylus is optional on Microsoft's tablet though. You can use the tablet perfectly without a stylus. You may choose to provide some inputs by using a stylus.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#195

Post by bitsoda »

So, to recap, no price, no demo of what it can actually do or why I would want one, two models with different processor architectures and significantly varying weights (1.5 and 2 lbs), awkward portrait 16:9 aspect ratio, no mention of battery life or availability, vents and cooling fans, two keyboards that look miserable to type on, but I'll reserve judgement until I've used one myself, and an admittedly useful kickstand.

This strikes me as a reactionary announcement from Microsoft. The surface is trying to be all things to all people. An iPad killer it is not. Still, I can't fault them for trying; their future rests on sales of Office and Windows.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#196

Post by ricardobeat »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #178
MrFoof wrote: post #7

They have a video on the main page. The video is a minute long. They have asked for my attention for a minute. In that minute, they have not told me anything about what the Surface can do for me, and why I should care about it. I'm absolutely baffled by that. Yes, I might know what it is, and have some idea about what it can do, but if this was a television commercial, I'd bet money that such a campaign would be a qu…

This is the Macbook Pro w/ Retina Display TV ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFIHewtEuJQ&feature=relmf... . It seems like Microsoft is figuring out that heart sells harder than specs.

That MBP ad shows the user editing photos, sending e-mail, editing videos, viewing photos, using swipe gestures, etc. They are not the least alike.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#197

Post by mey »

galenward wrote: post #154
mey wrote: post #80

While a horrible launch approach (no price, no availability, no info on cpu or ram) I will be keeping my eye on this, and looking for a chance to test drive in a brick/mortar. This could become an amazing travel device, but not holding my breath.

I don't buy the complaint about CPU or RAM - featuring specs is not the way things are done anymore.

If I am going to replace my on the go coding environment (which a Win 8 Intel tablet could be) I care about ram/cpu. Especially in a multi-tasking environment.

It may not matter for applications designed for a constrained environment (Apple/Android), but if I'm going to load up a big honking IDE on a Windows/Intel box, it starts mattering.

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#198

Post by jbigelow76 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #105
kjhughes wrote: post #76

After 5 minutes of scanning their site, I still cannot find the display resolution of their offering, but I have found: "Coming Soon." "Images are design renderings and not photographs." "1, 2 Actual size and weight of the device may vary due to configuration and manufacturing process" Anyone find a better spec sheet than this one? http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingasset... Why can't Microsoft pr…

Vaporware. They're trying to pre-empt anyone for capturing the tablet/mobile space by rushing their design concept out before anyone else has a chance to produce product, and force everyone to ape Microsoft's claimed, rather than actual, featureset. Oh, wait, that was NT, 1992. Scratch all of that.

Just "who" is it you think they are trying to rush? Certainly not Apple, and aside from the Fire/Nook Tablet is their an Android tablet that hasn't been dead on arrival (800 dollar Xoom anyone)?

If this was vaporware they were pushing in an attempt to get ahead of the market instead of playing catch up they would have put this out in 2010 instead of halfway through 2012.

If they can price the thing realistically (again, 800 dollar Xoom anyone?) it will have a shot otherwise it will fail (I'd really prefer it to succeed) and they'll try and spin it by saying it's targeting "the enterprise".

Re: Microsoft Introduces New "Surface" Tablet

#200

Post by celticjames »

jsz0 wrote: post #60

2012 is the year third party OEMs start to go extinct. First (and always) Apple, now Microsoft, soon Google/Motorola. There may be some niche markets left over for third party OEMs but otherwise I think they're done. No wonder HP wanted out of the PC industry. Maybe they knew something we didn't?

So this is hardware manufactured and sold under the Microsoft brand? Wow. That's a big re-alignment. I think you are right about this being the endgame for third-party builders.

Anyone know anything about this side of Microsoft? I assume the actual fab is done by anonymous Asian companies. How much of the design (nuts and bolts engineering, I mean) is done in-house and how much is contracted to established hardware manufacturers. (i.e. Does Samsung or the like have a piece of this pie?)

Post reply on HN