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Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

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Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#191

Post by spaceywilly »

makestuff wrote: post #142

> Unlike a traditional airplane, it becomes impossible to command the airplane into a stall, a spin, unsafe attitudes, or other bad states. Interesting product and definitely different from most YC startups we see! However, I am curious how the above will be impossible. Since it is fly-by-wire it seems like there is always a chance your sensor/servo fails and causes bad input. Or a software defect causes bad input wi…

I worked for a company doing something similar and they used servos that were strong enough to control the plane, but no so strong that the safety pilot couldn’t overpower them if needed. I think it’s the same for any autopilot really. And there’s always a big “disconnect autopilot” button in case it goes haywire.

I think they will need to consider that situation though, if the autopilot does fail the pilot would still need to have enough skills to land the plane. Even ATP pilots have this issue where they over rely on automation too much and lose their ability to land manually in an emergency situation.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#192

Post by joshe »

Very excited about this. I've been flying curious for years, but haven't actually done it. Some of the cons that have held me back...

A few of the places I'd want to travel to have consistently bad crosswinds. Crabbing looks complex and you have to get 5 things right or you die. For the non flyers check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca0V5q4XSb8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ri0D_0DdIU and how to do the maneuver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92K8s-vppDI&t=3s

It greatly limits your available flying days if you think "hey 30mph crosswinds are super sketchy, I don't want to fly today." So that means delayed trips or delayed returns. Hard to plan around.

I realize this isn't part of the current iteration and requires lots of regulatory hoops... But in future with automation, it would be amazing to know you could fly in clouds or evenings easily with only a basic private pilot's license.

Aviation self driving is so much older and reliable than automotive self driving, it's frustrating that it isn't generally available. It's awesome that you are working to bring it to low cost flying, thanks for working on this and congratulations on the launch!

I'll add that I think the "easy to drive as a boat or car" size of the market is easily 10x the existing private pilot market. (And the easy as a car and the price of a pickup truck size of the market is probably 1000x the current market). So I think you are on to something big.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#193

Post by iamtheworstdev »

aeternum wrote: post #165
sethkim wrote: post #83

Instrument-rated pilot (and engineer) here. First - congrats on the launch! I think you're working on an interesting set of components that will prove useful to GA aircraft technology. Bringing fly-by-wire, and lowering the cost of maintenance/manufacturing are both great efforts. That being said, my personal view is that stick-and-rudder control is one of the less critical components to improving GA safety. Everythi…

Excellent points, it's really these other aspects that get pilots into trouble. For example it's crazy that most pilots are still taught to calculate W&B using printed charts and approximate takeoff performance. I think you could save more general aviation lives with a fairly minimal system. A gas gauge sensor that calculates whether you have enough fuel to get to your destination + reserve. Avionics where you input…

> For example it's crazy that most pilots are still taught to calculate W&B using printed charts and approximate takeoff performance.

We're taught that so we know what we're doing. Then we open our iPhone app (EFB or electronic flightbag) and do it there. In fact, part of the reason we do it there is because most of them phone home to their maker and log that we did it. So if there's an accident people can know "well they did their W&B"

> the rest of the things

Regulations have made aviation so expensive that it's ridiculous. A lot of airplanes flying today are flying with their same avionics from 60 years ago because upgrading is expensive. To get the gas calculation you mention would require a certified GPS (on the low end from Garmin that's $6,000) and an engine monitor ($5,500 from Garmin), plus installation costs of another few thousand dollars.

Most planes have a gear down warning (ie, 3 indicator lights) but their original "bitching betty" is hard to hear because we now wear ear protection when we fly and have noise cancelling headphones. You probably can't even integrate that with a new Garmin system because they've gone full encrypted CANBUS to lock out integrations.

re: spin warnings - not sure what to tell you there. Stall speed is based on weight and configuration (flaps) and 99% of GA planes have no idea what they weigh or if their flaps are deployed.

But again, it's not that we can't do those things, it's just that they're completely cost prohibitive. Getting anything certified today is a flippin' nightmare and at too high of a cost to ever break even.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#194

Post by TylerE »

ryandrake wrote: post #184
n_ermosh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most accidents occur because the pilot makes a bad decision somewhere and a chain of events leads to an accident (in GA--commercial is a completely different beast). Our hope is to break that chain by making it as easy as possible for the pilot to continue flying the airplane and bring it safely to the ground in a high-stress emergency.

Even when the tools are available, pilots need the training to know to use them. How many NTSB accident reports include non instrument rated pilots getting disoriented in IMC despite having an autopilot with a "level" function? If your system can keep them out of this kind of trouble without them even having to take action, it will save lives.

The thing that worries me is that this will attract the same kind of pilots as Tesla's so called FSD.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#195

Post by randomnumber314 »

sethkim wrote: post #83

Instrument-rated pilot (and engineer) here. First - congrats on the launch! I think you're working on an interesting set of components that will prove useful to GA aircraft technology. Bringing fly-by-wire, and lowering the cost of maintenance/manufacturing are both great efforts. That being said, my personal view is that stick-and-rudder control is one of the less critical components to improving GA safety. Everythi…

I live in a suburb near a county airport. I cannot fathom a life with Tesla owners flying over where my kids and I bbq. This idea is great, but people should still be licensed for the real safety protocols e.g. radio and not crashing into others.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#196

Post by TylerE »

joshe wrote: post #192

Very excited about this. I've been flying curious for years, but haven't actually done it. Some of the cons that have held me back... A few of the places I'd want to travel to have consistently bad crosswinds. Crabbing looks complex and you have to get 5 things right or you die. For the non flyers check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca0V5q4XSb8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ri0D_0DdIU and how to do…

You're not landing this thing in a 30mph crosswind in something this small, no matter how fancy the control logic. You'd be too skewed to land safely. 30mph is pushing is for some airliners. The aircraft this is built on is only certified for a 15kt cross.

The bigger problem is that low level winds that strong are often associated with bad weather...which again doesn't mix well with small planes.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#197

Post by AdrianB1 »

Sport pilot with ~10 years of experience and a few hundred hours: I would never fly such a plane. Not only it does not solve any real problems I have with flying planes, but I think it is the most insecure place to be when (not if) the s hits the f.

Biggest 2 problems I see with flying these days are engines and overall cost. Archaic engines with mixture adjustment are a thing that needs to go away (fuel injection anyone? 2024 is calling) and the ginormous cost of planes needs to change in order to sell. There is also the problem of decent avionics costing way too much, but this is included in the second main problem - it is 20 times cheaper to fly with an iPad than a decent glass cockpit, while the reliability can easily be compensating by having 2 iPads onboard, even a third as a backup.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#198

Post by timfsu »

Congrats! I was an angel investor in a regional transit airline (https://www.surfair.com/) - there are a lot of wonderful places out there especially in the US that folks aren't traveling to because of logistics. As someone with a family as well, I'd love to learn to fly if it could be made safer and easier. Hoping you guys succeed!

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#199

Post by AdrianB1 »

randomnumber314 wrote: post #195
sethkim wrote: post #83

Instrument-rated pilot (and engineer) here. First - congrats on the launch! I think you're working on an interesting set of components that will prove useful to GA aircraft technology. Bringing fly-by-wire, and lowering the cost of maintenance/manufacturing are both great efforts. That being said, my personal view is that stick-and-rudder control is one of the less critical components to improving GA safety. Everythi…

I live in a suburb near a county airport. I cannot fathom a life with Tesla owners flying over where my kids and I bbq. This idea is great, but people should still be licensed for the real safety protocols e.g. radio and not crashing into others.

A CIWS maybe be the next standard feature on premium grills, ammo not included.
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