Robot dentist performs first human procedure • Hacker News Board

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#191

Post by random3 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

sierra1011 wrote: post #183

SO is a dentist. They laughed and said 90% detection leaves a lot to be desired, and there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray.* In addition, there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them. If you have the same dentist you'd be amazed at what they remember about your face and what's different from last time. General vibe i…

I keep seeing this template response/attitude but I think it’s generally flawed. Here’s why.

You judge a prototype / instance of a technological field that’s otherwise in full swing, cranking on releasing next version long before you see the current one

You assume this will be isolated from the rest of advancements, but in reality once you have the mechanics to automate imagery and drilling 100x more technologies can be composed. Memory in particular is something tech has always surpassed humans.

The combination of these two, particularly in the context of AI is much faster than most people can perceive.

So saying yes but x, is irrelevant for the most part.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#192

Post by adrianmonk » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:05 PM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #177

ben_w wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have good news: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=electric+toothbrush ;)

Waiting for the toothbrush that brushes all teeth at once in about 15 seconds

I also want a laserwash shower that takes 60 seconds. It would save time, and I'm pretty sure it would save water too.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#193

Post by m3kw9 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

Dental cases are deep and wide, I can see these robots doing the simplest and less complicated case of a single procedure and there are 100s of procedures

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#194

Post by a_t48 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

tssge wrote: post #181

a_t48 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also exist eg https://sonic-brush.net - but they aren't very good yet.

That's a dropshipping site for AliExpress products shipping from China. You'll save money if you buy the product straight from AliExpress without a middleman in between. However as you said, the toothbrush doesn't actually work.

Sorry, I just picked a representative example from Google. It was definitely not an endorsement.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#195

Post by worstspotgain » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:13 PM UTC

sierra1011 wrote: post #183

SO is a dentist. They laughed and said 90% detection leaves a lot to be desired, and there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray.* In addition, there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them. If you have the same dentist you'd be amazed at what they remember about your face and what's different from last time. General vibe i…

> there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray

I'd much rather have a 90% detection rate without an X-ray than 100% with. Destists are very trigger-happy with X-rays, in part because of the extra billing, but mostly because it makes their job easier and prevents mistakes.

The estimates of the hidden costs of radiation risk are tentative at best. Some people have inherently higher risk and many are not aware of it. Either way, it can take years or decades before the effect plays out. By then, no one is going to implicate the original providers who pushed for an elective X-ray.

Also, note that not all ionizing radiation is alike. The exact spectra are different and the exposure intervals are very different, so the comparisons to environmental sources don't necessarily hold.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#196

Post by m3kw9 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:14 PM UTC

random3 wrote: post #191

sierra1011 wrote: post #183

SO is a dentist. They laughed and said 90% detection leaves a lot to be desired, and there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray.* In addition, there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them. If you have the same dentist you'd be amazed at what they remember about your face and what's different from last time. General vibe i…

I keep seeing this template response/attitude but I think it’s generally flawed. Here’s why. You judge a prototype / instance of a technological field that’s otherwise in full swing, cranking on releasing next version long before you see the current one You assume this will be isolated from the rest of advancements, but in reality once you have the mechanics to automate imagery and drilling 100x more technologies can…

I’m optimistic about AI but if you know anything about dental procedures and then look at what this does, it’s the simplest and done in extremely filtered patients. While in 100 years there will be a robot that can do most cases but it is very justified to write this off in the near future and in the current form.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#197

Post by m3kw9 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

At least 20 years before you get to see one in an office doing very limited procedures. The dental association isn’t gonna give this an easy path to replace human dentists

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#198

Post by insane_dreamer » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

sierra1011 wrote: post #183

SO is a dentist. They laughed and said 90% detection leaves a lot to be desired, and there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray.* In addition, there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them. If you have the same dentist you'd be amazed at what they remember about your face and what's different from last time. General vibe i…

The problem with your observation is this is what can be done TODAY with a robot. Current dentists are indeed safe as you point out.

But after 20 years of iteration it might be able to do most or all of what you describe. This means that my 8 year old should maybe not, when he grads from college in the future, decide to go to dental school and rack up $200K of debt (actually that’s conservative) for a profession that won’t disappear but will likely face tremendous downward pressure (ability to perform more operations==fewer dentists needed==greater competition among dentists). And that is the problem.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#199

Post by matt_heimer » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #180

drewchew wrote: post #80

Will robot dentists facilitate the option to lay face down for procedures so that the debris and saliva falls out instead of needing the suction tool?

Probably not since you'd be drooling all over the robot "hand" and arm making it more difficult to keep clean. But it could probably moisten your drying out lips so they don't crack

All reusable dental tools have to go through a sterilization procedure after every use so would it matter? And they could have one-time use sleeves to put on the arms.

I think the main concern would be debris and drool getting on the camera but that is probably a concern for any position.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#200

Post by sierra1011 » Thu, Aug 01, 2024, 10:29 PM UTC

random3 wrote: post #191

sierra1011 wrote: post #183

SO is a dentist. They laughed and said 90% detection leaves a lot to be desired, and there's rarely a good reason to not have an X-ray.* In addition, there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them. If you have the same dentist you'd be amazed at what they remember about your face and what's different from last time. General vibe i…

I keep seeing this template response/attitude but I think it’s generally flawed. Here’s why. You judge a prototype / instance of a technological field that’s otherwise in full swing, cranking on releasing next version long before you see the current one You assume this will be isolated from the rest of advancements, but in reality once you have the mechanics to automate imagery and drilling 100x more technologies can…

A reasonable take, but one that I don't think lessens my point.

I can't speak to the other responses from which you've identified this yes-but-x template, and can speak really only from the 2 bits of knowledge I have: IT/infrastructure stuff is my primary knowledge, and my SO's dental training and practice, which is not "my" knowledge, but from this I have access to more knowledge than would the average person.

Now, the IT stuff. Automation has come a long way and quickly, but if I break something, it's just a service. Worst case scenario a customer can't buy something, or maybe a couple thousand customers can't. Big deal, one a minute, etc. I don't need to preach on this, I'm sure.

The medical field is significantly slower to adopt new practices, with the reasoning that their customers' custom is not an item in a cart, it's their health or life. New technology comes in slowly, with trials for wide population application taking decades in some cases. The stakes are so much higher that safety demands caution.

This does not of course mean never. I've said this in another reply also, but I think tooling like this augments service delivery at the very least (provided it meets safety standards) and could be the start of a boom of up-tooling practitioners. And I will be surprised if I see one in the flesh before 2050.