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Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

nature.com

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Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#191

Post by nulld3v »

jojobas wrote: post #186
dyauspitr wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll back you up but having done shrooms about a dozen times decades ago, you’re really missing out on a truly out of this world experience.

Betting your life to get a hallucination is not worth it even at 1:10000 odds. Guess what - you're missing out on a fentanyl high, so awesome that people sell all they have to get more!

Then you should never step in a vehicle again for the rest of your life, after all, the odds of the average American dying in a vehicle accident every year is 1 in 5000[1]. That doesn't take into account drivers/non-drivers, but I think it's reasonable to assume drivers are at higher risk than pedestrians considering pedestrians make up only a small portion of vehicle-related fatalities [2][3].

I do wonder what the actual odds are of getting injured by psilocybin though.

[1] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/risky.html

[2] https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians23

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#192

Post by latexr »

newzisforsukas wrote: post #152
radlad wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority just . . . sit there. This is irrelevant to the statement that having a gun around is more dangerous than not having a gun around. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homi...

> Men who owned handguns were eight times more likely than men who didn’t to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. > Women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely than women who didn't to kill themselves with a gun. That is specific to handguns and kind of what would be expected? Also, being more likely than not likely at all is pretty much comparing degrees of impossibility. Seems like this pops up in…

> That is specific to handguns

So what? More likely than not that’s the type of gun the person we’re discussing used.

> and kind of what would be expected?

Again, what’s your point? Because it’s expected we shouldn’t discuss it or do anything about it? Let’s bring back lead paint while we’re at it; I mean, it’s expected that it causes brain damage.

> "We need to stop this bad thing that rarely happens! Only when it happens even less than hardly ever will we all be safe!"

It happens in the US significantly more than in other countries. The US is literally at the top of the list, to the surprise of no one. So yes, making it happen fewer times, perhaps by learning from other nations which have demonstrated it’s possible, is a worthwhile goal.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#193

Post by Mystery-Machine »

elzbardico wrote: post #133
aatd86 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to weapons is also a problem. That could have been a transient event he would have recovered from.

In my life I met two people who survived botched suicide attempts without using firearms. When someone decides to do it, they will try, and there are things worse than dying.

I cannot believe you actually wrote that. With your comment it seems like you're saying that it's pointless to hide the guns ie not keep them close. But then you also said that those two people survived. Have you heard the saying: Opportunity makes a thief. It's similar here. Except that it's not a theft, it's a suicide. I wouldn't dare to write what you wrote, knowing that someone might read it and take the cue to _not_ do any precautions before their trip.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#194

Post by luqtas »

newzisforsukas wrote: post #152
radlad wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority just . . . sit there. This is irrelevant to the statement that having a gun around is more dangerous than not having a gun around. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/handguns-homi...

> Men who owned handguns were eight times more likely than men who didn’t to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. > Women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely than women who didn't to kill themselves with a gun. That is specific to handguns and kind of what would be expected? Also, being more likely than not likely at all is pretty much comparing degrees of impossibility. Seems like this pops up in…

barely happens but suicides rates among teens are increasing & never were this high [0]

students who take a weapon with them to school, impact welfare & performance of nearby students just because they are aware of that [1]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414751/

[1] https://apadiv15.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Reducing-Wea...

go figure the plot you have to live after an event of this type

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#195

Post by cthalupa »

newzisforsukas wrote: post #170
cthalupa wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, because I don't that anyone really has reported these side effects and I don't believe there are any known pharmacological effects from psilocybin or psilocin that would cause any of that. Were they dried mushrooms you ate? Do you trust the provenance of them? If they were a chocolate bar or similar, many of those do not actually have psilocybin or psilocin in them, and are instead using a variety…

> I don't believe there are any known pharmacological effects from psilocybin or psilocin that would cause any of that What are your qualifications to make a claim like that? There hasn't been much clinical research in humans using psilocybin until very recently [1], and they certainly do not cover the range of different species of mushrooms that contain the alkaloids [2]. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles…

My qualifications for saying "I don't believe there are any known effects that match that" is... reading quite a lot of clinical research on their usage, and not having seen anything that would match those effects. You'll notice I qualified that statement in two ways - both that it is limited to my personal understanding and that of 'known' effects.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing - neither of these links indicate otherwise. Are you familiar with the null hypothesis? Unless we have evidence of something being the case, why would we think it would be the case?

We also have decades of anecdotal reports on usage of psilocybin and psilocin containing mushrooms and I'm also not aware of any significant evidence from that that such an effect is even remotely common - it's the first I've ever encountered that sort of story about persistent headaches for multiple weeks following their usage.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#196

Post by Mystery-Machine »

isatty wrote: post #168
kjkjadksj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the lesson of this story is the danger of having a gun in the home at all. He could have been sober and depressed and did the same just as easily thanks to having access to a gun. There's a lot of statistical evidence for how dangerous situations like depression or domestic violence can become once a gun is nearby.

On the other hand, he could’ve very easily found another way without the gun.

And you know this based on what? To me it seems the opposite is true. If you have the means, it's more likely you'll do something. If it's too complicated, you might just give up, or not even have a thought that you could do something like that. Opportunity makes a thief.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#197

Post by cmehdy »

motohagiography wrote: post #134

Feedback in an anlog signalling system producing delays, reflections, geometric and clipped artifacts is something anyone who has used a guitar effects pedal is familiar with. I have a surprising number of old comments on this site about how hallucinogens just impair signalling and the results are geometric for the same reasons. This article says it impairs the equivalent to the CLK signal, which sounds just about ri…

Paychonautwiki has been classifying effects in a somewhat similar fashion for years/decades now: https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Geometry

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#198

Post by jojobas »

nulld3v wrote: post #191
jojobas wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Betting your life to get a hallucination is not worth it even at 1:10000 odds. Guess what - you're missing out on a fentanyl high, so awesome that people sell all they have to get more!

Then you should never step in a vehicle again for the rest of your life, after all, the odds of the average American dying in a vehicle accident every year is 1 in 5000[1]. That doesn't take into account drivers/non-drivers, but I think it's reasonable to assume drivers are at higher risk than pedestrians considering pedestrians make up only a small portion of vehicle-related fatalities [2][3]. I do wonder what the a…

Where I live it's more palatable 1/22k/year, and a lot of that are thrill seekers on motorcycles, drunk drivers etc.

More importantly, driving a car gets me where I want to be, not just triggers an unexpected condition bug in my brain.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#199

Post by collyw »

empath75 wrote: post #49

I can't think of anything in the world I would enjoy doing less than completing "a simple auditory–visual matching task" while in an MRI scanner on shrooms.

Agreed. Being in an MRI sounds like you are in the middle of a warzone. With constant sounds that sounds somewhat like gunshots. That would be pretty terrifying on shrooms.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#200

Post by collyw »

newzisforsukas wrote: post #166
brotchie wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it can generally be assumed that there is approximately 15 mg (+/- 5 mg) of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom" -Wikipedia So 25mg is ~1.5g of dried mushrooms. Decent dose, but not a "omg I'm one with the universe." For instance, a "Hero Dose" typically starts at 5g of dried mushrooms, so ~3x the dosage used in the study. Though it's possible the uptake rate using their dosing mechanism is much higher than "stoma…

> So 25mg is ~1.5g of dried mushrooms. 1.25g - 2.5g *

That isn't a high dose. Medium.
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