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Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

mstdn.social

191–200 of 221 posts

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#191

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

Incredible that this is the #1 post on HN. The slightest amount of basic research what this functionality does is absent, combined with the obviously ignored knowledge WHY firefox still has any users at all.

Glad the whole thread was apparently flagged to death though. I'd guess 90% of firefox users already turned that off and are actively looking for the next best alternative.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#192
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web needs to make money I don’t think this is true. No one “needs” to make money. Museums don’t need to make money. OSS doesn’t need to make money. The web has value without making money. But even if it does make money, it doesn’t need to maximize profits at the expense of user privacy and joy.

Museums do get money from somewhere. Where do you get them for web?

Same place as museums. Benefactors.

Check out Wikipedia for an example of a huge site that doesn’t make money and just runs on donations.

I run my crappy blog and a bunch of other sites for “free” because I just pay the fees.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#193
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. It is strictly less privacy-preserving than not implementing this "feature" that has zero benefit to the user running the browser. At the very least it pings yet another third party, most likely it effectively leaks much more. > The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I gues…

Web needs to make money. Giving tools to advertisers while making sure user privacy is preserved is better than free reign of tracking we have before, no? I myself do not like ads or tracking, but we need to be realistic and there needs a way to make web sustainable. How to do that and making sure that monopolies like Google are in check is a valid concern though, but in these conversations is the only point I hear.…

Agreed but it shouldn't be the problem that a browser should solve. The browser is a user client. It really doesn't make sense for browsers to try and enforce or help a certain business model. It's great if the web and web browsers help businesses make money, but it should be a side effect, not a goal for user clients.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#194
This might be a stupid question but who exactly gets access to that data? What's the process for getting said access? I guess it's paid but is it accessible to most ad networks or just the big players? (I can see upsides and downsides either way)

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#195

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

"The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad."

If this is "privacy", then it appears so-called "(ad) tech" companies are attempting to redefine the term.

Question for readers: Is knowing the identity of a person a prerequisite for that person to lose (some) privacy.

Consider the dictionary definition:

Webster's: "The state of being in retirement from the company or observation of others; seclusion."

Wordnet, from the Cognitive Science Laboratory at Princeton: "the quality of being secluded from the presence or view of others [syn: {privacy}, {privateness}, {seclusion}]"

Example:

A person in a building in a large city on a busy pedestrian street draws the curtains or blinds in a window facing the street to prevent passers by from seeing in. The passers by do not know the identity of the person(s) inside.

The scare quotes around "privacy-preserving" are justified. The act of allowing measurement destroys some privacy. It is less private to let people on the street see into the building.

Allowing measurement destroys privacy. How can marketers make it easier to swallow. Using a term like "privacy-preserving" is obviously deceptive, it is sleight of hand to conceal the frog boiling. This is not Mary Poppins. You are not being given a spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down in a delightful way. It's poison in small doses. Eventually, the frog will die.

The "frog" is the concept of your privacy. The notion of "privacy" for so-called "tech" companies is not being targeted. Even when courts ask them to share what they are doing, they evade such discovery claiming it would put them at a competitive disadvantage: they might ultimately lose money. Whereas if opening yourself up to 24/7 observation causes you to lose some advantage and ultimately to lose money, then your loss is their gain.

There are certain risky activities in life that some folks choose not to engage in. These activities can be made "safer" and even "safe enough" that many will choose to do them despite the risk. But it does not remove all the risk. There are endless examples. Skydiving, bungy jumping and so on all the way down to relatively mundane stuff. But in almost every case, there is an incentive to participate. There is a "reward" for taking the risk.

The incentives for Mozilla, "ad tech" and all those who support this nonsense "business model" based on surveillance is easily discernable. Finding an incentive for anyone using a web browser to want to participate in this "measurement" requires mental gymnastics.

And so it must be opt-out. No one would knowingly subject themselves to such needless observation.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#196
post #45

I suppose I should finally switch to Librewolf. I really don't like Firefox forks, for the slow updates and because I do genuinely use some bleeding edge features, but I'm tired of Mozilla.

Are the updates really slow?

Oh, I don't know, I don't mean to slander Librewolf. I'm just saying that intermediaries are sure to cause some kind of inefficiency.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#197
post #66

There is a lot fire directed at Mozilla on HN. I'm not saying I support or can make sense of all of their decisions but I'd love for someone in the criticizers camp to explain what steps they would take to make Mozilla and the continued development of Firefox a financially sustainable and independent endeavour.

Idk, I've been a pretty big booster of Mozilla (check my comment history) but this one is appalling.

Legit, this is the same FLoC we had to bully Chrome out of having. And now Ffx is putting it in sneakily by as an opt out default with no notice.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#198

As a loyal user, I didn't quite see this coming. Under `Browser Privacy`, I have `Enhanced Tracking Protection` set to `Strict`. I had studies turned off, when I go to `about:studies` it explicitly says: "No new studies will run.". I have `Tell web sites not to sell or share my data` checked. I have `Send web sites a “Do Not Track” request` checked. It seems like Mozilla still thought it was okay to automatically add…

Well put <3

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#199
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think this is a great initiative. Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere, and Mozilla is trying to come up with a version of that which isn't terrible. And this sounds reasonable.

> Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere Sure they are - just install ublock origin. Even if you're OK with the snooping and the attention hijacking and the slow pageloads and the pictures of rotting teeth, plenty of malware has been delivered by inept ad networks. Frankly, I find it strange when someone doesn't block ads.

When you close your blinds, the sun doesn't go away.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#200

As a loyal user, I didn't quite see this coming. Under `Browser Privacy`, I have `Enhanced Tracking Protection` set to `Strict`. I had studies turned off, when I go to `about:studies` it explicitly says: "No new studies will run.". I have `Tell web sites not to sell or share my data` checked. I have `Send web sites a “Do Not Track” request` checked. It seems like Mozilla still thought it was okay to automatically add…

Well said. +1

I've supported Firefox as my daily-driver on desktop and laptop since 2016. I feel that a browser should be 100% open-source and used to feel FF also had it's USERS interest at heart. FF was what I relied on to continue to fight for internet privacy in your browser and the growing ad garbage on the web. FF + uBlock was great and made the web a joy for me. I would donate to FF if I could.

I've basically had enough of this. Commercialization has now infiltrated all browsers. There are none left (except for a few FF forks run by who knows). I put up with the many blunders FF has done over the past years like; "Mr Robot" incident, Tracking my default browser in Windows with a Scheduled Task that always comes back after updates, Studies are on-by-default, increasing tracking features added in that were Opt-Out and now THIS latest "anonymous" collection of my browsing habits sold to advertisers. This is appalling.

I'm tired of having to go through all the release notes and settings again to see what I have to disable this time on my own devices plus my clients FF installs and family I've recommended FF to. I can do that with Edge or Chrome.

I'm out FF. I uninstalled FF 128 from my PC fully today (and any others I help support) and will try out Vivaldi for a bit (they seem still pretty grounded DESPITE it not being 100% open-source). and if that doesn't meet my needs I will just use Edge. I'd try Brave but again that is an advertising company at this point that also pitches crypto.

It is a sad day for me. I really am holding out hope for Ladybird next at this point because I don't think FF ever goes back now to it's stand and to what it represented.

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