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Do Skis Get Blunt?

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Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#191

Post by AtlasBarfed »

Zigurd wrote: post #190
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 mm became Vogue and cycling because wind tunnel testing showed it was superior in aerodynamics combined with a new carbon clincher rims If I recall correctly

My daily ride is an old race bike so 25mm is the widest that will fit between the chainstays. Also the widest that would not bulge out on old Mavic Ksyrium rims. If not for these questionable life choices I'd be on 30s. According to Continental, 28mm is the prevalent width for TDF teams.

Oh right, I got confused, it might actually have been even bigger 28+mm on the TT bikes that was doing well in the wind tunnel testing.

25mm was the older "skinnier" size that was prevalent in the peloton, or even 23s or smaller.

I think it also became apparent that rolling resistance was reduced on wider tires, so if an aerodynamic (and weight) formula could be made to make 28mm viable, it was better.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#192

Post by denhaus »

bamboozled wrote: post #178
denhaus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I laughed out loud at the “fly off a cliff edge” On the real however, getting down the mountain safely after dusk etc with dull vs. sharp edges will likely only affect intermediate skiers. Beginner skiers are going to crash no matter what they’re riding if on steep and icy terrain. Expert skiers know when and how to ride conservatively and can basically ride anything in any conditions “safely” (even if that means jus…

What I didn't really like about he parents comment is that it seems kind of "lazy" not to do your edges. My wife broker her arm recently when a kid fell over in front of her and she couldn't stop quickly. On steep icy terrain this is a concern. That was my true "fly off a cliff edge" example. The comment seemed like a "I don't wear a helmet because it's uncool" sort of thing...just do your edges occasionally, what's…

Well I did as a racer and still do on my firm snow skis. But there is a slight performance trade off depending on what kind of skiing you like to do. I keep my edges on my pow skis dull because it’s slightly easier to slash and dash in crud and makes very little difference on icy terrain. For fully cambered directional skis being ridden very aggressively, it would make more of a difference. Every once in a while i’ll do the edges on my firm snow skis though if I’m bored, since a few years ago I bought a full diamond edge tuning kit and feel like I need to get some use out of it.

Point being, I’ve never found sharp edges matter much for most recreational riding. None of this has any relation to being uncool. Maybe in your wifes scenario, having razor sharp edges would have saved her from breaking her arm; almost certainly not.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#193

Post by npsimons »

Zironic wrote: post #185
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and yes I mean 99% In which country? I thought carving was relatively popular with locals in the Alps (Switzerland, Austria, etc). At least it looks like that's what they're doing to me, but maybe they still do it wrong.

Carving is extremely popular in Alpine skiing. The thing to keep in mind though is that a perfect carve on a perfectly sharp ski means you are literally ice-skating downhill. That means you will go very very fast, much faster then most people are comfortable with on the harder slopes. So what people do is instead of carving perfectly, they deliberately slip to create some friction and slow themselves down.

> So what people do is instead of carving perfectly, they deliberately slip to create some friction and slow themselves down.

As an amateur alpine tourist who is deathly afraid of that feeling of "loss of control" from incredible downhill speeds, this is exactly what I do.

That said, I'm here reading because I want to know if the heuristic for sharpening changes when A) one is mostly off-piste (rock, hard ice, etc) and B) really want those edges sharp for ungroomed (ie, icy) slopes.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#194

Post by npsimons »

oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

> Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pushing it, especially if you are racing, and most especially if you are on extremely hard or even water-injected snow.

I have to ask, as someone into alpine touring and ski mountaineering (but not racing), what difference would backcountry skiing make to this advice? I imagine you'd need sharpening more often, due to twin factors of A) more rock and hard ice and B) really wanting that control on ungroomed (ie, icy) slopes at high angles.

I don't consider myself "really pushing it", but would like to have every ounce of control I can get when heading downhill. I'm enough of a beginner that I will often side-slip or even just hike completely down a slope I don't like the looks of.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#195

Post by mthoms »

npsimons wrote: post #194
oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

> Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pushing it, especially if you are racing, and most especially if you are on extremely hard or even water-injected snow. I have to ask, as someone into alpine touring and ski mountaineering (but not racing), what difference would backcountry skiing make to this advice? I imagine you'd need sharpening more often, due to twin factors of A) more r…

A well sharpened edge can give better grip and precision but comes at the cost of forgiveness.

So it’s a doubled edged…. edge?

Your best bet is to get your skis tuned at a shop that is knowledgeable about backcountry skiing and be brutally honest with them about your ability and the type of terrain you ride. They should set you up appropriately.

A full tune once or twice a year should be sufficient, unless you’re doing over 20 days or so.

If you have significant rock damage to your base or edge you should get it addressed asap.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#196

Post by bamboozled »

denhaus wrote: post #192
bamboozled wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I didn't really like about he parents comment is that it seems kind of "lazy" not to do your edges. My wife broker her arm recently when a kid fell over in front of her and she couldn't stop quickly. On steep icy terrain this is a concern. That was my true "fly off a cliff edge" example. The comment seemed like a "I don't wear a helmet because it's uncool" sort of thing...just do your edges occasionally, what's…

Well I did as a racer and still do on my firm snow skis. But there is a slight performance trade off depending on what kind of skiing you like to do. I keep my edges on my pow skis dull because it’s slightly easier to slash and dash in crud and makes very little difference on icy terrain. For fully cambered directional skis being ridden very aggressively, it would make more of a difference. Every once in a while i’ll…

Why not just have "clean" edges though? Low bevel angle, but able to work on ice fine when required?

In pow and crud, I don't know if the edges do really anything, except if there was any rust, they'd probably grip the crud a bit.

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