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Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

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Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#191

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

vasco wrote: post #127
hbarka wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford’s Blue Cruise is hands-off in mapped highways. Waymo is driverless. Musk is really getting away with all the hype for what Tesla cruise control delivers.

One interesting bit is that recently Nvidia's CEO said Tesla is ahead of the other companies in the space. My opinion is also that Tesla isn't but then we have a connundrum. Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them? > “Tesla is far ahead in self-driving cars,” Huang said in an exclusive interview with Yahoo Finance. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-ceo-says-tesla-far-ahe...

> Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them?

Waymo works in limited places and relies on a ridiculous number of sensors. Have you seen one in real life with all its equipment? Surely that makes it less advanced or at less ambitious. Assuming something malicious about Nvidia’s CEO seems like a big leap.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#192

Post by golol »

Larrikin wrote: post #17
gabesullice wrote: post #2

I find it difficult to take the technology review seriously with the off topic remarks and prefaces about Musk and Tesla at the beginning of the post.

If you aren't in the cult of personality, a lot of people need to justify it at this point. I have no interest in buying a Tesla unless he divests fully. Everyone else seems to be catching up without lying about their projected capabilities and I don't need an EV today. I don't want to give him any more money than he has.

Lmao how amny other companies do you buy products from that have shady business strategies or CEOs with unacceptable views? At least Elon doesn't hide it.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#193

Post by deng »

DennisP wrote: post #165
deng wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, what is also important is that in many cities you often need to drive with a bit of... let's say "confidence", otherwise you will never leave your current spot. When you try to enter a busy street, you sometimes JUST NEED TO GO, trusting the oncoming traffic will slow down if needed. Sometimes a nice person will flash headlights to let you know it's OK, but I'm pretty sure FSD will not be able to notice that...…

FSD already understands some human gestures, and it learns this stuff by seeing how human drivers do things. Understanding a headlight flash doesn't seem like a big ask. And recently, the biggest complain from FSD users was that it drove a little too aggressively. Because it copies human drivers, FSD actually was doing slow rolling stops for a while. Then people freaked out and pretended that was super unsafe, and th…

But that's exactly the point: there's no general rule for this kind of thing, it depends on the concrete situation. There are definitely stop signs where you need to do a full stop because you cannot see any oncoming traffic. Basically: it's OK to do rolling stops until it isn't.

Same goes for flashing headlights, these can mean different things, depending on the situation. It can mean: I see you, feel free to drive. It can also mean: what the hell are you doing? Or: you left your laptop on the car roof.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#194

Post by [deleted] »

hankman86 wrote: post #64

They should teach Tesla’s “autopilot” (and its FSD upgrade) in business schools. Turns out you can sustainably push up company valuation on vapourware. You have to wonder if Tesla’s autonomous driving technology was actually ever meant to turn into a product. Or whether it is mostly a tool to justify the lofty Tesla stock price. I very much doubt that it is technologically ahead of its competitors.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#195

Post by drcode »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #187
drcode wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop using anecdotes and provide safety statistics in your argument, like this: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/10/Tesla...

If you care about statistics, you would check those numbers, and find that they are basically bullshit. Tesla does not release any verifiable data on FSD / Autopilot, and for a good reason (good for them).

They're legally required to provide accurate accident data to the government, that's what these figures are based on

If you have information that Tesla is faking statistics it's giving to the government, you should make your evidence public

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#196

Post by TheAlchemist »

hankman86 wrote: post #64

They should teach Tesla’s “autopilot” (and its FSD upgrade) in business schools. Turns out you can sustainably push up company valuation on vapourware. You have to wonder if Tesla’s autonomous driving technology was actually ever meant to turn into a product. Or whether it is mostly a tool to justify the lofty Tesla stock price. I very much doubt that it is technologically ahead of its competitors.

Give it some time !

When the dust settles, it will certainly be taught in business schools. And Musk will be in prison (not for FSD specifically).

I watched the shareholders meeting yesterday - it was amazing. Elon repeated all the same things, he kept telling for the past 5 years at least, none of which is close to become a reality. And none was described in any tangible detail - all very vague promises.

As for FSD, autonomy and Robotaxis, one has to remember when it was announced and promoted - when Tesla was close to bankruptcy (per Elon himself).

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#197

Post by drcode »

kalleboo wrote: post #190
drcode wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop using anecdotes and provide safety statistics in your argument, like this: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/10/Tesla...

"Tesla vehicles not using Autopilot technology" did not even have basic AEB

I would also prefer more granularity on the data, 100%

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#198

Post by debatem1 »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #191
vasco wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting bit is that recently Nvidia's CEO said Tesla is ahead of the other companies in the space. My opinion is also that Tesla isn't but then we have a connundrum. Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them? > “Tesla is far ahead in self-driving cars,” Huang said in an exclusive interview with Yahoo Finance. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-ceo-says-tesla-far-ahe...

> Is Nvidia's CEO just saying this because Waymo doesn't buy GPUs from them? Waymo works in limited places and relies on a ridiculous number of sensors. Have you seen one in real life with all its equipment? Surely that makes it less advanced or at less ambitious. Assuming something malicious about Nvidia’s CEO seems like a big leap.

Ambition isn't the goal, self driving is. Who cares how many sensors it has as long as it works?

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#199

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

primitivesuave wrote: post #185

FSD is not ready. I'm a Model Y owner, tend to lean pro-Elon, and will gladly tell you that it's a fantastic car - but the self-driving is still not ready. My free month of autopilot made me trust it less . It's quite good at highway driving, but the phantom braking and haphazard lane changing has eroded my trust to the point that I am manually driving the car 100% of the time. I prefer the previous pseudo-FSD which…

> It's quite good at highway driving, but the phantom braking and haphazard lane changing has eroded my trust to the point that I am manually driving the car 100% of the time.

Elsewhere in this discussion someone noted that the latest FSD updates don’t apply to highway driving. I don’t own a Tesla and am not a fan of them due to the various privacy issues and reliance on touchscreen controls. But for what it’s worth phantom braking is an issue I have on my non Tesla cars with their driver assistance features. I’m not sure if it is worse on a Tesla, but anecdotally in my friend’s Tesla I was blown away by how comparatively advanced a Tesla feels.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#200

Post by TheAlchemist »

drcode wrote: post #195
TheAlchemist wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care about statistics, you would check those numbers, and find that they are basically bullshit. Tesla does not release any verifiable data on FSD / Autopilot, and for a good reason (good for them).

They're legally required to provide accurate accident data to the government, that's what these figures are based on If you have information that Tesla is faking statistics it's giving to the government, you should make your evidence public

No, they are not.

Tesla is pretty much the only car maker that does NOT provide data on autonomous car testing. It's not mandatory.

As for the concerns about the data accuracy, they are very much public now. Here is the latest ongoing NTHSA investigation into Tesla:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2022/INCR-EA22002-14496.pdf

Some quotes:

"Gaps in Tesla’s telematic data create uncertainty regarding the actual rate at which vehicles operating with Autopilot engaged are involved in crashes. Tesla is not aware of every crash involving Autopilot even for severe crashes because of gaps in telematic reporting. Tesla receives telematic data from its vehicles, when appropriate cellular connectivity exists and the antenna is not damaged during a crash, that support both crash notification and aggregation of fleet vehicle mileage. Tesla largely receives data for crashes only with pyrotechnic deployment,2 which are a minority of police reported crashes.3 A review of NHTSA’s 2021 FARS and Crash Report Sampling System (CRSS) finds that only 18 percent of police-reported crashes include airbag deployments."

"ODI uses all sources of crash data, including crash telematics data, when identifying crashes that warrant additional follow-up or investigation. ODI’s review uncovered crashes for which Autopilot was engaged that Tesla was not notified of via telematics. Prior to the recall, Tesla vehicles with Autopilot engaged had a pattern of frontal plane crashes that would have been avoidable by attentive drivers, which appropriately resulted in a safety defect finding.

Peer Comparison Data gathered from peer IR letters helped ODI document the state of the L2 market in the United States, as well as each manufacturer’s approach to the development, design choices, deployment, and improvement of its systems. A comparison of Tesla’s design choices to those of L2 peers identified Tesla as an industry outlier in its approach to L2 technology by mismatching a weak driver engagement system with Autopilot’s permissive operating capabilities. "

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