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Why are debut novels failing to launch?

esquire.com

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Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#191

Post by BarryMilo »

api wrote: post #166
BarryMilo wrote: post #53

I'm currently starting a publishing company in a niche Canadian market. What people in these comments (and really, most places on the internet) fail to grasp is the role of the publisher as a curator and editor. Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. They don't have a stake in your ego, they won't sugarcoat it beyond the veneer of professionalism. You need an editor who is not your friend, too say no to…

If I were writing a book I’d definitely consider a real publisher but before that I’d be tempted to pay someone independent to be an editor and be bad cop. A student or remote worker with literary chops would do that as a first pass. Pay them to tell me what about my book sucks before wasting an editors time with a submission.

All it takes more courage than most of us have after writing our first book!

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#192

Post by l72 »

I'm not as familiar with the book scene as I am with the music scene, but I see a lot of similarities. Discovery is a huge issue, and takes a lot of effort.

I listen to a specific sub-sub genre of metal that gets no mainstream (even from "big" metal publications) attention. The best way I have found to come across new albums is to subscribe to really small labels that specialize in the genre of music.

Many of these labels are hobbies or part time jobs for their owners, but I find they do an excellent job curating music I'll be interested in.

The problem, is often subscribing and keeping up to date with these labels is really tough. Fortunately, for music, we have bandcamp.com which does a pretty decent job of this (although it takes some additional work [1]). If bandcamp.com went away, I don't know how I'd discover most of my new music.

Does the book scene have anything similar?

[1] https://blog.line72.net/2021/12/23/converting-bandcamp-email...

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#194

Post by unclebucknasty »

tomnipotent wrote: post #181
unclebucknasty wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess we need to invent ads, so that we don't all have to become influencers? It's almost as if you've never bootstrapped a business, self-published a book, or similar. If you have, and had the resources to use paid ads to reach your desired scale, then congratulations. I think that does indeed entitle you to be smug and dismissive with everyone else.

So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper? What I'm reading is someone wants all the upsides with none of the downsides. No one is entitled to an audience, especially that of another, just because they've produced some good or service. Participating in capitalism requires either time or money, usually both, and even then you're not guaranteed success.

>So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper?

No one is entitled to an audience... Participating in capitalism requires either time or money...and even then you're not guaranteed success.

Wow. It's like I'm talking with a real, live Rockefeller! My comment was exactly about requesting sympathy and demanding government mandates to buy my products, and those of every bootstrapper.

But, your brilliant, esoteric insight regarding the true nature of capitalism has shown me the light. Thank you!

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#195

Post by raydev »

joenot443 wrote: post #149
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I seem to get the same result on things I post from my medium publication - which started after I posted some links to some time travel stories I wrote in a post about time travel which seemed to me to relate and which got a few upvotes. After that if I posted a link to an article I wrote it got shadow blocked (at least for a bit) the thing is I only post things here that I think fit the site, which is about 1…

Lots of people submit their own work to HN all the time to great success. If your post was flagged, it probably just wasn’t as relevant to the community as you might have imagined. Perhaps take it as constructive criticism on your writing, rather than blaming the poor reception on the community.

Funny to call it "constructive" when the reasoning for the flag is absent.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#196

Post by narrator »

boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Not many people have read my novels because they are extremely dense and technical near future stuff, but I've made interesting friends from writing those books. In fact, one contact I made basically paid for the whole two year investment in writing the novel.

I know a very successful writer of thrillers and he said that the technical content of the books would have to be completely stripped down to maybe what's contained in a few chapters of my book in order for it to be mainstream accessible.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#197

Post by epicureanideal »

tomnipotent wrote: post #181
unclebucknasty wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess we need to invent ads, so that we don't all have to become influencers? It's almost as if you've never bootstrapped a business, self-published a book, or similar. If you have, and had the resources to use paid ads to reach your desired scale, then congratulations. I think that does indeed entitle you to be smug and dismissive with everyone else.

So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper? What I'm reading is someone wants all the upsides with none of the downsides. No one is entitled to an audience, especially that of another, just because they've produced some good or service. Participating in capitalism requires either time or money, usually both, and even then you're not guaranteed success.

> So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper?

Yes.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#198

Post by BarryMilo »

api wrote: post #168
BarryMilo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points all around! It's funny because I expect most of us do it for the art, but artistic merit doesn't pay the rent. This is why many smaller publishers have "locomotives" that are guaranteed to sell so they can publish "good" literature books that won't sell. Don't know about the big American ones, seeing as they're flooding the market I assume they're just playing a numbers game, let God sort them out...

Loads of industries use hits to pay for the entire rest of the industry with the “for the art” stuff often at best making small returns. It’s even true in tech. Most VC backed companies fail but the few mega-successes fund the entire ecosystem.

True, I guess most artistic industries must work this way, since we all know that about 95% of all art is terrible (and that was before AI).

I feel like there's a difference between a company and an industry, though in the end I suppose it's all a sort of natural selection. Good (or rather, "fit") authors publish second books and third books, while good companies get to exist into second, third years etc.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#199

Post by api »

AlbertCory wrote: post #52

I used the public library to get a lot of books that I'd never want to waste my money on. You can call it "market research." Verdict: there just isn't a market for serious fiction like there was 70 years ago, say. J.D. Salinger considered himself a failure until he finally got a story in The New Yorker . How many writers dream of that nowadays? Then there's Esquire, of course : https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/376…

My impression is that a good novel today being turned into a series or screenplay is what huge scale novel success used to be. Huge scale success with just a book is very rare, though there are some writers who find a niche audience.

The thing I decry is the worthless idle attention suck of “social” media. That competes with all forms of quality art and content. Instead of watching good movies or listening to music or reading a book people are scrolling TikTok, Xhitter, Instagram, etc.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#200

Post by beemanF »

i think that books, movies, music are just becoming noise at this point. they are completely ephemeral. they are basically free, or ar least they would be if the markets were allowed to do what theyre supposed to do without copyright. and now with AI, the effect is only growing stronger. paying for media feels closer and closer to paying for air. it just doesn't make sense. its ephemeral and so abundant that its basically free. i think this might be our new reality. being an artist as a profession might not be a thing for much longer
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