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Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

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Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#191
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix themselves say that 15Mbps is enough for 4k. 1.2Gbps downstream is enough for >50 such 4k video streams without saturation -- something that will probably never happen in any household, even in Grandma's house on Christmas Eve with a bunch of grandkids around. Meanwhile, I've had single-player games of Factorio of medium complexity that would saturate 20Mbps upstream. Nobody needs a connection that is so heav…

Why is single player factorio phoning home so heavily?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It isn't phoning home to Mother like a Windows box might. :) Factorio runs, by default, completely locally.

I was using Factorio, as a single player, with the thing split into two parts: A server component, and a client component.

The data betwixt my headless server and my client was just getting too heavy at times for the 20Mbps upstream of that server.

Why so much data? Thousands of bots, constant wars, lots of things being moved around, interplanetary mining happening on a decent scale... The data transferred gets bigger as the game becomes more complex.

"But, like -- why didn't you just play it remotely like everyone else does using Steam's remote play or something?"

The latency of Remote Play sucks in ways that are distracting to me. The h.264 video sucks and has artifacts, presumably because of tradeoffs made to improve latency. My 10Mbps upstream at home works OK with Plex and hardware encoding where latency isn't important, but it doesn't work well at all for me with Factorio.

Splitting Factorio into two parts (client and server) eliminates video encoding, but it isn't completely without cost.

"But you said you had a server with a 20Mbps connection. What happened to that?"

I do. But it's under my desk at work (as is tradition), not at home. And that box doesn't have enough GPU oomph to deal with rendering Factorio.

"Right. OK, weirdo. So why aren't you just playing Factorio at home on your presumed gaming PC, then?"

Sometimes, I'm not at home or I just don't want to sit at my desk. My laptop has enough GPU to run Factorio smoothly as a client, but it does not have enough CPU to keep a moderately-complex game running smoothly on its own. And that's where splitting the game into two parts becomes worthwhile for me.

(Or, you know: Maybe I just want to play it online with a friend, like a normal person might -- but someone still has to run the server, somewhere. Some options include running that server on available hardware with available connections [for "free"], or renting hardware from Hetzner or something [not even a little bit free].

The point is: I've found that it sucks running a Factorio server with a 20Mbps upstream, even with just a single player, and thus a top-flight residential Comcast connection won't keep up. If I had 5 friends who wanted to play instead of 0 friends, that problem would be even more pronounced.

I mean. It's 2024, my dudes. What's up with this 60:1 down:up ratio?)

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#192
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is single player factorio phoning home so heavily?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It isn't phoning home to Mother like a Windows box might. :) Factorio runs, by default, completely locally. I was using Factorio, as a single player, with the thing split into two parts: A server component, and a client component. The data betwixt my headless server and my client was just getting too heavy at times for the 20Mbps upstream of that server. Why so much data? Thousands of bots, co…

Interesante. Is this server/client mode something factorio supports natively or is it a mod of some kind?

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#193
post #162

The private ISPs also tend to have under the table agreements with each other to avoid competing with one another in some regions. Keeps the prices high while spending the bare minimum to keep the network running (which means low bandwidth and asymmetrical options). Occasionally you may live in an area with more than 2 options, but that’s rare. I have moved around a dozen times and only recall a single instance where…

Can you point to any evidence of these "under the table agreements" or is that speculation?

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#194

This is such a misleadingly narrow headline. Utopia's a decade old and has been a mess from the business side pretty much the entire time. Even Google fiber in Provo's somehow giving better rollout service than they are. I was excited when it was announced as a teen but it's been a long road of failing to live up to expectations for all but a tiny fraction of our residents in the rich parts of our cities. And it's su…

UTOPIA frustrates me.

I live in a part of Utah where Xfinity is the only gigabit option. Despite a huge number of the UTOPIA providers claiming to serve my area, none of them actually do. My home is in a stupid weird bandwidth dead zone, with 10Gbps options available all around me. The house across the street from me has Google Fiber, yet Google Fiber won't install it at mine a mere 50ft away. I'd be a lot more upset if my Xfinity connection wasn't rock solid. It provides the exact advertised speeds, and in the 5 years I've had it, it's gone down maybe once. Still, I want 10Gbps. It's maddening.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#195
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It isn't phoning home to Mother like a Windows box might. :) Factorio runs, by default, completely locally. I was using Factorio, as a single player, with the thing split into two parts: A server component, and a client component. The data betwixt my headless server and my client was just getting too heavy at times for the 20Mbps upstream of that server. Why so much data? Thousands of bots, co…

Interesante. Is this server/client mode something factorio supports natively or is it a mod of some kind?

Well... I mean, it's Factorio. Everything including the base game is a mod. :)

Silliness aside, it's a built-in part of "Multiplayer," which is included with the base game. But my late-night brain refused to use the word "Multiplayer" in an instance where only a single player (me) has ever been involved.

Like Quake was back in the day, online/multiplayer play of Factorio requires servers, and those servers are all run by regular-ish people. Some servers are public and are easy to find (and as with Quake, sometimes this is unintentional), and some [like my own] are private, unlisted, and don't even exist on the public Internet.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#196

As someone who has 1/1000th of that bandwidth to the Internet, and yet still only saturates that connection when transferring from some nearby sites, I'm curious how useful having a 10Gbps local connection will actually turn out to be in practice. Being able to download Linux ISOs faster is the prominent use case that comes to mind.

My household of 5 adults maxes out a gigabit connection routinely. Streaming video, cloud based gaming, video calls, downloading game updates, backing things up to cloud storage. It adds up. I anticipate some might argue "that's not right" or "that's not possible, your network is wrong" - all I can say is that it happens and that it'd be less likely to happen with a 10gbps connection.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a communitarian-libertarian axis that’s distinct from the conservative-liberal axis. While libertarianism tends to dominate both the left and right in the U.S., I suspect most American conservatives outside the coasts are more communitarian, closer to Christian democrats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_democracy . Conversely, while American liberals have putatively communal ambitions, they’re often t…

If you're referring to the political compass, that thing is just an astrological star chart for politics. It's just about as accurate. Go to Wikipedia for that, about 70% of the word count is calling it nonsense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass Those are the numbers you get with topics like homeopathy

I don’t know what the political compass is. I’m talking about polls that show a large share of republicans support things like social security and Medicare expansion: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/poll-a-majority-of-r....

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#198

Semi-rural residential Texas Triangle needs this. Some places have Spectrum (Charter) and nothing else. Google Fiber is fantasy outside of Austin. One notable exception is GVEC. https://www.gvec.net

Google Fiber is a fantasy for some people in Austin too. I was right outside their initially planned extent, literally by a block, and they have never bothered to extend out to my subdivision despite being within Austin limits. I got AT&T Fiber instead and it has worked great for a decade. I just upgraded to their 2Gbps because they gave me a pretty solid deal on it.

Yep. I had 1 Gbps for 2 years and 2 Gbps for 2 years. (Can get 5 or 8 Gbps, and possibly 20 with a beta program.) GF excludes most of the downtown core except for Google buildings. I've speculated it's some sort permitting cost or dark fiber cost issue. I don't understand the logic they use to select cities or wire some customers but not others while leaving holes randomly. https://broadbandnow.com/Google-Fiber

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#199

Semi-rural residential Texas Triangle needs this. Some places have Spectrum (Charter) and nothing else. Google Fiber is fantasy outside of Austin. One notable exception is GVEC. https://www.gvec.net

AT&T Fiber is expanding quickly in North Texas. Got 2.5 gigabit a couple years ago to my suburban home in the edge of DFW where it transitions to rural. Their headquarters are in Dallas so they are keen on expanding locally.

Makes sense in the Metroplex where there is already tons of dark fiber from the dotcom days and right-of-way already in place from cable, DSL, and other distribution networks.

Re: Utah Locals Are Getting Cheap 10 Gbps Fiber Thanks to Local Governments

#200
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People worry about price dumping waaay out of proportion to how often it is a problem. Usually when there is a deep-pocketed entity stomping out local competition they are using regulatory capture as their main tool (this is what Comcast seems to do) and the problem is competition has been made illegal. In situations like this, my default assumption is that it is illegal to lay competing cables until proven otherwise…

That new national network ("the NBN") is so hit-or-miss that it's not funny. My current connection in Brisbane is 1GbE download (incredibly fast for Australia), but only 50mbps upload. That 50mbps upload is the fastest commonly available speed in the whole country. Most ISP's don't offer anything faster than 20mbps. :( Reliability isn't great either. Had an 8 hour (!) outage overnight about a month ago, then a ~2 hou…

My favorite part of NBN was always data caps. Data caps on internal traffic thru fiberoptic backbone!
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