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Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

theguardian.com

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Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#191

Post by Jensson »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #190
Jensson wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It actually goes down That is what you expect if you raise your insulin, insulin reduce blood glucose, so if the sweetener increased insulin without adding sugar then it reduces blood glucose. > goes down since time passes between me starting the drink and finishing it. Blood sugar levels are stable unless you eat sugar, they don't go down over time, unless you do something to add insulin to make it go down or add…

Diet soda using a zero calorie sweetener has an insulin index and glycemic index of zero. You’re just wrong.

You are making the strong statements here, not me, I'm just saying your evidence there wasn't enough to support your strong statements. If you have more evidence such as the insulin index being zero, you should have brought that up.

If the insulin index is 0 then per definition it doesn't increase insulin, yes, but the glycemic index being 0 doesn't say it about insulin, as your post suggest, so your post was definitely wrong. I was not wrong pointing out that your post was wrong.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#192

Post by amanaplanacanal »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #136
McP wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is new. The WHO only changed their guidance about a year ago [1]. Still, as far as I know the evidence is only associational. From the paper the article links to: "Potential for reverse causality cannot be eliminated". [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/15-05-2023-who-advises-not-to-...

So it sounds like artificial sugars can actually cause diabetes? That's unfortunate. Occasionally I drink Coke Zero as an alternative to Coke, but perhaps I should start replacing that with unsweetened seltzer water like La Croix.

Or, just as likely, diabetics are more likely to use artificial sweeteners.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#193

Post by Pomfers »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #136
McP wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is new. The WHO only changed their guidance about a year ago [1]. Still, as far as I know the evidence is only associational. From the paper the article links to: "Potential for reverse causality cannot be eliminated". [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/15-05-2023-who-advises-not-to-...

So it sounds like artificial sugars can actually cause diabetes? That's unfortunate. Occasionally I drink Coke Zero as an alternative to Coke, but perhaps I should start replacing that with unsweetened seltzer water like La Croix.

No, the "Potential for reverse causality cannot be eliminated" means that instead of artificial sweeteners causing diabetes, causality can be reversed: Diabetes causes the intake of artificial sweeteners.

All these studies just show an association, but can not prove the direction of causality. For whatever reason, the idea that diabetic and overweight people deliberately seek out zero sugar sweeteners so that they can enjoy sweetness without making their situation worse just doesn't seem like a plausible explanation to them.

Personally, if you can't definitively prove something is bad for you after 45+ years of research, I just don't care anymore. People can occasionally drink Coke regular without issue, I wouldn't be worried. Most of the time, diabetes is not caused by merely occasional consumption of sugars.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#194

Post by Pomfers »

bhelkey wrote: post #75

From the linked study, "These findings of positive associations between artificial sweetener intakes and increased T2D risk strengthen the evidence that these additives may not be safe sugar alternatives." This is news to me. I was under the impression that: 1) artificial sweeteners were a safe substitute for sugar for people with diabetes and 2) diabetes came from excess sugar consumption which wasn't a problem with…

Your impressions 1 and 2 can both be correct, and there still be an association between artificial sweeteners and type 2 diabetes.

It has been shown for decades that this association exists, it's establishing cause, and causal direction that's hard. Does consuming artificial sweeteners cause diabetes? Or does having diabetes cause the consuming of artificial sweeteners?

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#195

Post by watwut »

swatcoder wrote: post #102
watwut wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quip is a cynic joke, not a statement of historical fact. There are many organizations that simply kill themselves and die out via people leaving as the original purpose don't matter anymore.

Quip? Joke? I don't know what you mean. It's an extensively treated paradigm in sociology. With sociology being a "soft" science and not having access to a methodology as rigorous as physics, it's certainly contestable and there are of course many sociologists who have made arguments against it or that simply don't consider it convincing, but it's not just some casual insight and certainly not someone's "joke". The r…

Maybe in some pop sociology books, but actual real sociology as a science does not treat it as an established truth at all. The sociology being "soft" does not mean you can cherry pick what suits you and pretend there is consensus about your cherry pick.

In that sense, not even physics is like physics.

Also, the actual sociology, if anything, tend to be very nuanced where majority of the claims are packed into conditionals and probabilities. As a science, it super rarely makes simplistic claims like this.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#196

Post by UncleSlacky »

david-gpu wrote: post #164
UncleSlacky wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also check out the Newcastle Protocol by Prof. Roy Taylor, now adopted by the NHS: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#pub...

Consuming fewer calories, especially fewer carbohydrates, will help lower your blood insulin, which is the necessary condition that allows adipose tissue to finally release its excess stored energy. Even though calorie restriction works great in lab rats as the researcher can control what the rat eats and the rat can't do anything about it regardless of how hungry it becomes, it's not that simple with humans, particu…

Calorie restriction under the Newcastle Protocol is only required for between 8-12 weeks, typically once you've lost around 15kg on average. Afterwards, it's a matter of maintaining the weight loss through (improved) diet and exercise.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#197

Post by GrantMoyer »

bhelkey wrote: post #75

From the linked study, "These findings of positive associations between artificial sweetener intakes and increased T2D risk strengthen the evidence that these additives may not be safe sugar alternatives." This is news to me. I was under the impression that: 1) artificial sweeteners were a safe substitute for sugar for people with diabetes and 2) diabetes came from excess sugar consumption which wasn't a problem with…

Exccess calorie consumption and resulting obesity can cause diabetes. Consuming too much sugar is one way to consume too many calories, but so is too much starch, or too much fats, or (perhaps most commonly) too much food in general.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#198

Post by GrantMoyer »

From the article, it looks like the ADA didn't give dangerous advice, and the doctor accusing them has views about diabetes opposed to the current medical consensus. For example, the Dr. claims the ADA is surpressing that a low carb diet can reverse type 2 diabetes. However, it isn't a low carb diet specifically which can "reverse" type 2 diabetes, it's a low calorie diet in general and the resulting weight loss.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#199

Post by devilbunny »

elicash wrote: post #167
devilbunny wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> public sector workers A group for whom even FDR, the great co-opter of unions, had to pretend to be opposed to unionization. Seriously, civil service protections are there for you and don't apply to private-sector employees. But you claim the right to strike against your fellow citizens and deprive them of government services? This isn't Andrew Carnegie; it's your fellow citizens.

1. I’m not a public sector worker, weird assumption. 2. I advocate for private sector to unionize as well. I’m not the one who brought up Janus/private sector. 3. You’re telling me people with important jobs (private or public) shouldn’t be able to strike to improve the very services we all depend on? Hospital workers striking for better patient ratios? Teachers for their students? Taking away those freedoms is wrong…

"You" being used impersonally here; I don't mean you specifically.

Private sector unions are crap under US law, but they're a good concept in general.

No, public sector employees should not be allowed to strike. They get special protections (civil service) that do not apply to private-sector workers. Public sector workers work for the rest of us; we're not all fat-cat capitalists taking their potential wages to make ourselves rich. We're their fellow citizens, and when government employees strike, what's the average citizen to do? Your mother died while abroad, your passport is expired, but hey, the State Department clerks are on strike, so guess what? You're not going.

You want things to change, vote someone in who agrees with you like any other citizen. The only strike-breaking measure that's easily available to the government (due to civil-service laws) is conscripting everyone in the job or replacing them with military/National Guard, which is swatting a fly with a Buick.

Re: Does the American Diabetes Association work for patients or companies?

#200

Post by shepherdjerred »

worik wrote: post #169
shepherdjerred wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it sounds like artificial sugars can actually cause diabetes? That's unfortunate. Occasionally I drink Coke Zero as an alternative to Coke, but perhaps I should start replacing that with unsweetened seltzer water like La Croix.

Water. On its own. It's what I drink

I already drink more than enough water; I enjoy drinking _something_ while studying.
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