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H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

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Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#191
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens eat worms. Feeding them crab or fish meal is fine. Cows are herbivores. Feeding them meat is abhorrent.

> Feeding them meat is abhorrent. "Meat" is a relative term though. If I dry carcasses with some muscle and tissue still on them, grind it up into a powder, and add that powder to grain, is that meat? "For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return," etc.

If you look at it that way, anything can be anything. We feed soybeans to pigs, ergo I can serve you edamame beans and call them ribs.

What you described - desiccated waste meat and grain - is a dog biscuit.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Foxnews.com. Who should I use? Isn’t it a mathematical fact that if Americans consume exponentially more resources than others then as more people gain wealth commensurate with Americans then exponentially more resources will be consumed? Or do you think Americans are especially greedy in this respect? I had not considered that possibility. https://www.foxnews.com/health/forever-chemicals-found-us-dr... https:/…

>Who should I use? None. Go out there and enjoy life, life is way too short to be spending it listening to so-called journalists peddling anger and fear.

It’s interesting to hear someone use the phrase don’t listen to main stream media think that Foxnews, Newsmax, Alex Jones, etc are all cranks who can’t be trusted. Given your implied self professed ignorance you must occasionally wonder if your very limited experience exploring the world is indicative of its true state. Ignorance is bliss so continue to stop watching Foxnews, Newsmax, and other like minded sources.

EDIT: Looking at your past comments it’s clear you do consume news! What a surprise given your comment.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#193
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how on HN we regularly talk about terraforming Mars, computer/brain interface, the AI "singularity", or even immortality brought by technology, but "sustainable farming" is an unsolvable problem and is so out of our imagination spectrum that we almost shouldn't discuss the possibility...

Folks going to Mars don't ask me to change the status quo and the status quo must be preserved no matter the consequences!

But I don't see any alternatives being discussed, like say, sky scraping towers of factory farmed cows that take up a square block and can feed hundreds of thousands. Like apparently the only solution is abstention or restriction. Where are the crazy visions of feeding tens of billions of people through some high tech magic whatevers.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.

> You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake. That's a disgusting fast-food derived dietary preference. Healthy meat-centric diet does not look anything like that.

That's precisely my point. There are healthy and unhealthy meat-centric diets. There are healthy and unhealthy meatless diets. The absence of meat isn't the cause of a bad diet, as GP was alleging. People have bad diets because they like the taste of unhealthy food and either don't care or don't know about the consequences.

(And I'll quibble about it being entirely fast-food derived. Steak-frites is classic French and Belgian food.)

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#195
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what a key source of protein is in chicken feed? Crab/fish meal. Which is to say leftovers after processing, dried and ground. https://www.feedipedia.org/node/664 At the end of the day, non-pasture food animal raising boils down to getting enough nutrients and time into them to hit your target slaughter weight, subject to feed conversion ratio for the species. Cheaper nutrients = higher margins or lower prod…

Chickens eat worms. Feeding them crab or fish meal is fine. Cows are herbivores. Feeding them meat is abhorrent.

I helped my dad castrate some of cattle one time, and we just tossed the ... parts ... off into the grass. Later I saw one of them come over and eat one. So I'm not so surethey would not eat meat on their own, but since they are too slow to catch any, and they couldn't tear it off the carcass, anyway. I expect that chopped up meat is in short supply in the grasslands.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article indicates "30% to 40% of those samples test positive". Clearly, spread is occurring, indoors or out. ("The cows never get to see the sun" doesn't really sell me on factory farming, either.) Side note: The second photo is noted as a dairy on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_farming#Concerns .

Spread is occurring. However you have given no reason to think factory farms are in any way at fault.

I don't think it's at all controversial that concentrated monoculture populations are more at risk of spreading infectious pathogens, and there's no evidence that these tests for H5N1 were performed on a bunch of artisanal raw milk producers.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks going to Mars don't ask me to change the status quo and the status quo must be preserved no matter the consequences!

But I don't see any alternatives being discussed, like say, sky scraping towers of factory farmed cows that take up a square block and can feed hundreds of thousands. Like apparently the only solution is abstention or restriction. Where are the crazy visions of feeding tens of billions of people through some high tech magic whatevers.

Eating more veg and less meat has got to be a lot cheaper for everyone, and more realistic, than building 100-story towers filled with cows, eh?

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#198
post #124

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[flagged]

Quantity has a quality all it’s own.

I mean yes, we're programmed for it, the problem is that quantity used to be hard to come by, hence it was desirable. Now that we have essentially no limits we can see how maladapted we are

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#199
post #81

It's crazy to see people denying that (meat) factory farming is a problem. You'd expect most of the public of this website to be rationalists in one way or another. Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of course we can thrive with less meat consumption or none. How is that even a question?

>> Of course factory farming is an aggravating factor for the spread of diseases. Of some diseases. It also prevents other diseases. Isolating animal species, specifically separating their waste, prevents cross-contamination. Google the stories of people getting parasites from lettuce grown on a "small organic farm" downhill from the pig sty. Want to eat raw lettuce and undercooked steak without getting sick? Those p…

> Isolating animal species, specifically separating their waste, prevents cross-contamination.

Not even close to true. The act of isolating (concentrating) animal species, pumping them full of antibiotics, and concentrating their waste is a significant danger to human and animal health alike. It breeds antibiotic resistant strains of disease and the waste is never isolated - it always gets into the soil, air, and groundwater of the surrounding communities increasing the risk of cross-contamination downstream. These are well-documented, peer-reviewed, large scale impacts that you somehow ignored when googling for n=1 anecdotes to confirm your bias.

Re: H5N1 prevalence in milk suggest US bird flu outbreak in cows is widespread

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. But most people will not find, enjoy or choose food with both of those qualities, not to mention that they are a minority over what's commonly available -- and even if they are available, they'd probably become too expensive if consumption increased significantly. Most of the time they'd have to choose between "delicious foo…

> If you take out meat, you'll simply reduce the pool of available (good) choices Only if we forced everyone to give up meat at gunpoint. Most people who choose to go meat-free, and stick with it, end up finding tasty and nutritious food that works for them. > even when they are available, they are usually too expensive to become a common staple. People automatically assume that giving up meat means salads and tofu a…

I'll happily concede the expensiveness point, and also say that if we are not entertaining the idea of forcing anyone to give up meat (which is what I thought we were discussing), then we are not in disagreement.

I'll only add that when promoting vegetarianism or veganism, I find most such sources to be akin to propaganda, i.e. they always talk about the benefits but rarely talk about the disadvantages. I suspect this might be because veganism is often tied to political preferences (and certain cultures).

As an example, here's something Wikipedia mentions that you will not usually see entirely discussed in articles promoting such diets:

> [Vegan diets tend to be lower in] omega-3 fatty acid, vitamin D, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12. As a result of the elimination of all animal products, a poorly planned vegan diet can lead to nutritional deficiencies that counteract its beneficial effects and cause serious health issues, some of which can only be prevented with fortified foods or dietary supplements

This might partly explain why it's about as common to find a vegan bodybuilder as a flying cow... it might not be impossible to find one, but it's about as unnatural. And there are probably good reasons for this, including availability and easy absorption/digestibility of all the essential amino acids, which is important for muscle growth and maintenance, which in turn is very important for health especially in middle and old age.

It could also explain why when I see a random vegan person, they tend to "look" unhealthy more often than a random non-vegan person, although I concede that I may be biased, of course -- I've also seen sources claiming vegan people live longer, although I suspect that if it's true, it may be because vegans tend to be more health-conscious and choose their diet and sources of nutrition more carefully, not necessarily because of the lack of meat itself.

But of course, as long as all such information is reported in an unbiased and accurate fashion, I see nothing wrong with it.

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