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The purge of German science in 1933

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Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#191

Post by KingOfCoders »

nforgerit wrote: post #184
KingOfCoders wrote: post #175

And 1945. Double whammy. Germany never made a comeback. The anti-science culture revolution of the 1970s cemented this. It's cool to be bad in science in schools since then, every celebrity boasts about how bad they were in mathematics etc.

German here. It's actually true that you see a lot of "public intellectuals" that publicly tell how bad they were at math. I only realized that when Merkel as chancellor back in Covid times, after numerous meetings with other politicians and non-scientists, found herself explaining exponential growth on a press conference with her fingers. Not sure about the 1970s hypothesis, though.

German here. Grew up in the 70s with anti-intellectual TV-shows (like Rappelkiste).

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#192

Post by dudefeliciano »

reissbaker wrote: post #74
arp242 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, anti-Judaism is not the same thing. This is just "normal" religious persecution that has been around since forever and that many (if not all) religious groups have experienced at some point or another. Does this matter? Well, in the context of discussing Nazi world-views it does. None of this is especially controversial among mainstream Jewish historians, as far as I know.

I think you're trying to draw a hard line distinction where only a blurry evolution exists. While antisemitism in the 19th and 20th centuries had some unique characteristics that co-evolved with other forms of racism, antisemitism existed before the 19th century and there are clear evolutionary roots e.g. "Jewish badges" [1] that date back to the 1100s, which the famous "Jude" badge from the Nazi era was a continuati…

i think the main difference is that in the middle ages conversion to Christianity was a way to avoid persecution, while this was not an option under nazi Germany.

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#193

Post by pasabagi »

Vecr wrote: post #152
pasabagi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general the thing people find obnoxious about this kind of argument is that both 'race' and 'IQ' have their origin in eugenics, but are meaningless in genetics. The genetic variation across one race (say black) is much greater than the variation between races. There are no well-established genetic predictors of IQ. So, even if you do find evidence that there is a statistical correlation between these two unscienti…

Can't you train a predictor on skull shape/bone length and IQ and go from there? Yeah there's no causation there, but you should be able to give a percentage that someone's IQ is above a certain number depending on high-rez MRI scan input of skull and bone length measurements.

You can train a predictor on anything: that's how the famous cases of 'racist AI' came about. The point is, you can't establish a causal relationship without accounting for confounders. If you're starting with a question established by racists, with 'race' and 'IQ' as your two poles, and human populations as your data, good luck managing that.

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#194

Post by drekk »

carlosjobim wrote: post #190
CogitoCogito wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines didn't protect people from getting covid What do you mean by this? The vaccines absolutely decreased the likelihood of getting and the severity of Covid.

I meant exactly what I wrote, almost everybody who took the vaccines contracted covid.

Protecting people from COVID involves more than preventing them from contracting the illness. It reduced mortality and hospitalizations. Compare the mortality rate in a country like Brazil to the US and tell me again how the vaccines didn't protect people from COVID.

I seriously don't get this antivax nonsense. People get the flu after a flu vaccine sometimes too. The point is to not have a naive immune system if all other defenses fail.

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#195

Post by mistermann »

Kranar wrote: post #70
tptacek wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of weird things in this comment, but the weirdest is the claim that antisemitism is a 19th century innovation; Google "expulsion of the Jews from" and see where it autocompletes for you. Similarly: pogroms in the Pale of Settlement were not motivated by (and predate) 19th century race science.

No one would dispute that hatred towards Jews existed for 1000s of years, but I think you're mincing words here and being somewhat uncharitable. The kind of anti-Semitism that was based on an innate racial inferiority rather than based on religion and culture was very much a 19th century development and it was that specific form of hatred towards Jews that was widespread across Europe and America rather than an oppos…

> Indeed the term "anti-Semitism" was coined to reflect the shift in hatred towards Jews from one rooted in culture and religion to one root in race.

It's kind of interesting how any such distinctions have been essentially eliminated. Nature is very mysterious.

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#196

Post by wizzwizz4 »

Tainnor wrote: post #187
radu_floricica wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disease is independent of context. It's about taking a political club and using it to hit anybody you don't like. And we're far from being immune to it even now. The correct reaction is to identify people using this particular pattern and penalize them regardless of political or cultural affiliation. Especially if they're in your own tribe - you're the one in the best position to censure them.

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Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#197

Post by ectopasm83 »

te_chris wrote: post #177
pasabagi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general the thing people find obnoxious about this kind of argument is that both 'race' and 'IQ' have their origin in eugenics, but are meaningless in genetics. The genetic variation across one race (say black) is much greater than the variation between races. There are no well-established genetic predictors of IQ. So, even if you do find evidence that there is a statistical correlation between these two unscienti…

This guy clearly is just trying to bang on about racial superiority but coaxing it in terms of "they won't let us say the thing". Your response neatly shuts him down. Well done.

[dead]

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#198

Post by snowpid »

soperj wrote: post #143
Tainnor wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the same thing in mathematics. For example, when Edmund Landau defined pi as "twice the value of the unique zero of cos in the interval [0, 2]" (a very common definition) instead of geometrically, this was attacked as being "un-German" (even though you can obviously go from the geometric to the analytic definition and vice versa). https://institucional.us.es/blogimus/en/2017/03/pi-and-the-n...

Haven't multiple states done the same thing? (trying to redefine pi)

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Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#199

Post by aredox »

EnigmaFlare wrote: post #123
defrost wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turned out to be a big conspiracy and false. Did it now? Lableak truther loses $100,000 in his own debate https://www.protagonist-science.com/p/lableak-truther-loses-... Even with money on the line and an arsenal of medical expertise and documents that's not a case that can be conclusively made.

I agree it's not conclusive, so I shouldn't have said "false", but the FBI says it was most likely a lab leak [1]. Your article starts by calling it a "false myth" so they're clearly still in the political partisanship trap whatever the outcome of some bet. Anybody who's certain it was of natural origin is just being fooled by the news and some prominent scientists who made some intentionally misleading statements. […

The FBI doesn't know ("likely" isn't a proof, it is not even a certainty). When Trump was in power, why hasn't any conclusive proof published?

Re: The purge of German science in 1933

#200

Post by aredox »

ctrw wrote: post #148
Daishiman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever information you're getting, know that you're on the end of disinformation, because the mortality reductions were definitely broad-spectrum.

Is that why the US is the only country to mandate covid vaccines for children when there were no deaths in that group?

The US does not mandate covid vaccines for children.

you are indeed deeply misinformed, to the point of not getting basic facts right. Please admit it.

https://www.statista.com/chart/25326/obligatory-vaccination-... https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

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