Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

museum.seiko.co.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 270 posts

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#191

Post by groestl »

derstander wrote: post #104
mik1998 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... most European countries (modulo some exceptions like Germany) existed (non-continuously) for at least a thousand years.

> I mean... most European countries (modulo some exceptions like Germany) existed (non-continuously) for at least a thousand years. This is interesting to me. What does it mean for a country to exist non-continuously? I can understand making the case under some sort of continuity despite dramatic changes in e.g. control of land or type of government. Sort of like a nation-state Ship of Theseus. But I don't understand…

I think non-continuous succession of the same entity comes down to using or grandfathering the law, claiming the same assets, but also honoring liabilities of the predecessor. It's the same as with companies.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#192

Post by eesmith »

derstander wrote: post #104
mik1998 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... most European countries (modulo some exceptions like Germany) existed (non-continuously) for at least a thousand years.

> I mean... most European countries (modulo some exceptions like Germany) existed (non-continuously) for at least a thousand years. This is interesting to me. What does it mean for a country to exist non-continuously? I can understand making the case under some sort of continuity despite dramatic changes in e.g. control of land or type of government. Sort of like a nation-state Ship of Theseus. But I don't understand…

Was Iceland a country when it was founded? Or later, with the start of the Icelandic Commonwealth? Did it end being a country after the pledge of fealty to the Norwegian king in 1262?

If it was always a country, then go west. When Eric the Red founded Greenland, was it a European country? Did it become a country? After the Norse died, the Danish-Norwegians still claimed sovereignty, and reestablished a colony. The place is now a constituent country of the Kingdom of Denmark.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#193

Post by brabel »

JdeBP wrote: post #116
rdlw wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland was occupied by Germany during WWII. The people still considered themselves Poles during this time, and the only reason there wasn't a 'Poland' was because of military strength, so it seems silly to say that early 1939 Poland and late 1944 Poland are different countries because of lack of continuity. Certainly, almost all Poles will tell you the country 'began' (it kind of had a soft start) in 966, and not in…

Cue all of the animated YouTube videos about Poland's border changes caused by WW2! (-:

What we call Poland today was part of so many kingdoms, empires, Duchy's it's not even funny. WWII was just the last of a long history of changes.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#194

Post by vitus »

kibwen wrote: post #15

> The numerical notation of 4 is IV in Roman numerals. Using "IIII" instead of "IV" isn't even necessarily wrong. Rome was a big empire with a widely-distributed populace that lasted for a thousand years. The usage of numerals changed over time and according to context: "While subtractive notation for 4, 40 and 400 (IV, XL and CD) has been the usual form since Roman times, additive notation to represent these numbers…

I recall seeing IIII in my Cicero class and expressing confusion, but being informed by the professor that said style was more common historically.

The Wikipedia citation for 9 is Commentarii de bello Gallico (Julius Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War), which interestingly comes from around the same timeframe (first century BC, toward the end of the Roman Republic).

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#195

Post by kibwen »

xandrius wrote: post #127
tsunamifury wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I think it’s a fair argument that the last gasp of the Roman Empire ended in world war 1

If you forget Italian fascists trying to bring it back, otherwise you could push it to the end of WWII

Unfortunately, Putin still occasionally invokes Russia as the successor to the Eastern Roman Empire in an attempt to justify his imperial ambitions, so we're still riding this train.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#196

Post by eesmith »

szundi wrote: post #180
eesmith wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In our current calendar system I don't always celebrate my birthday on my birthday.

This is so true and adds to the prev prev argument

I'm so familiar with the Gregorian calendar that I would prefer the International Fixed Calendar (13 months of 28 days + Leap Day and Year Day) with its yearly synchronization over the Mayan calendar.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#197

Post by flakeoil »

croes wrote: post #137
ghostly_s wrote: post #23

IMHO there's an obvious reason not mentioned: due to their position on the dial and convention IV and VI would typically be depicted upside down, increasing the likelihood of confusing them—particularly with a semi-literate populace.

So why would IV and VI a problem and IX and XI not?

Maybe because IX and XI are not upside down, only at most 90 degree angle.

Re: On clock faces, 4 is Expressed as IIII, not IV

#198

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

hnbad wrote: post #189
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #11

I collect roman coins, and they also used IIII themselves on at least a couple of types I can think of, and also VIIII instead of IX.

This shouldn't be surprising given that even orthography and names were often not standardized consistently for most of history. For example, Adolf Hitler's grandfather was called Hiedler , not Hitler and the spelling change was the result of his father's name, Alois Hitler, being changed later in his life after first being recorded as Aloys Schicklgruber (the family name being that of his mother rather than father a…

That was a quick escalation to Hitler - just goes to prove Godwin's law! :)

I didn't realize the subtractive style really dates to the middle ages, but that certainly seems consistent with the coins - I checked a bunch more and none seem to use it.

Post reply on HN