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Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

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Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#191

Post by fckgw »

mywittyname wrote: post #163
fckgw wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking for literally any Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Chevy or Mazda sedan. Hope this helps.

Automatic Emergency Braking and adaptive cruise are difficult features to avoid. The IIHS dings vehicle safety ratings if they do not have AEB. Because of that, even entry level vehicles like the Elantra have AEB. Almost every manufacture has committed AEB on their entire lineup.

They said they want adaptive cruise control but not lane keeping. Most automaker allow you to disable the lane keeping if you want while keeping cruise (my Ford does this)

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#192

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

kqr wrote: post #89
sponaugle wrote: post #79

I have some old NASA push button switches that have two bulbs in them. When the switch is off both lights are off, when you click the switch the yellow bulb comes on and lights up the switch, and when the device you turned on actually turns on a green light turns on ( and the yellow turns off ). The idea is you push the button and the yellow state is the confirmation that you toggled the switch, but the green is the…

This is a good one, and also what airplanes do[1]. These problems are solved by people who care a lot about usability, but computer people are slow to pick up this sort of stuff from other fields. Labels outside the switch also work.[2] [1]: https://my737ng.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cp_mcp_header... [2]: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/37/0a/2c370a3f4018cfa9c3ef...

> computer people are slow to pick up this sort of stuff from other fields

Because computer people aren't optimizing for functionality, intuitiveness, or really any sort of UX.

They're optimizing for some idea of "beauty" and whatever is trendy.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#193

Post by CamperBob2 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #172
CamperBob2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legibility isn't clutter. We moved away from hieroglyphics a long time ago because alphanumeric characters are objectively better.

Hieroglyphics are alphanumeric characters. We moved away from them because they are much too detailed to be convenient to write. You could make a case that alphabetic characters are "objectively better" than syllabic characters, but you'd have to do it on some other basis than "we moved away from them a long time ago"; syllabaries are very common today and don't cause problems.

OK, as I'm not an Egyptologist, let's substitute any other language whose orthography is based on icons and pictograms. There aren't many, and there's a reason for that. They suck.

Certain Asian languages come to mind, something they started to regret grievously around the time the typewriter was invented.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#194

Post by bqmjjx0kac »

pjot wrote: post #167
kqr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good one, and also what airplanes do[1]. These problems are solved by people who care a lot about usability, but computer people are slow to pick up this sort of stuff from other fields. Labels outside the switch also work.[2] [1]: https://my737ng.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cp_mcp_header... [2]: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/37/0a/2c370a3f4018cfa9c3ef...

My table saw has this as well. A green and red light, both with off/steady/blink states that indicates information about the blade and safety system.

Mine has this as well! I like the UX, but it's also kind of crazy that they didn't think about red/green colorblind users.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#195

Post by pera »

Someone wrote: post #158
pera wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who created the checkbox widget? System 1 (1984) had check marks on the menu and "x boxes", which are equivalent, but not checkboxes afaik

> System 1 (1984) had check marks on the menu and "x boxes", which are equivalent, but not checkboxes afaik I think it had ( https://andymatuschak.org/files/papers/Apple%20Human%20Inter... , page 56) I don’t know whether those were the first, but https://skeuomorphic.design/p/from-paper-ballots-to-pixels-t... claims they were, in the sense that the Mac made radio buttons different from toggle buttons. Does anybody kn…

Thanks, that's a nice pdf: so what I called "x boxes" were actually named "check boxes" (although they didn't use the check mark symbol)

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#196

Post by GeorgeDewar »

watwut wrote: post #168
toast0 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cruise control with "follow speed" If I'm reading you right, you want your car to follow the speed of the car in front of you? Usually delivered by radar assisted cruise control? That's complicated stuff, and you'll probably get lane keeping assistance too, because it's a package. At least on my car with lane keeping, there's a big button in the center console to disable it.

Adaptive cruise control is fairly standard these days, even cheaper cars have it. You can easily turn lane keeping assistance off in my car. I guess it is necessary, because lane assistance massively sux when there is reconstruction. They are not really the same hardware wise, one of them requires radar in front and other camera thingy for lanes.

The lane keep assist in my 2017 Leaf is awful. If I used it, anyone would take me for a drunk driver as it drifts to the edge of the lane and then corrects endlessly.

Thankfully it can be turned off, and it stays off.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#197

Post by FridgeSeal »

kortex wrote: post #133
derekp7 wrote: post #6

This has been really frustrating to me lately with Microsoft Teams. If I'm in their app, the mute button is a microphone with a line through it (if mute is activated, i.e. if the mic is off). And the icon changes to a microphone without the slash over it to indicate that you are no longer muted. Makes sense. But if I join using the phone app on my phone, the same microphone with a line through it (that means you are…

I think part of this confusion stems from the "default mic on" mindset, where "mic active" is assumed to be the default, and mute is a deviation from that state. We can trace this pattern back to the UI of phone conference systems, back through analog phones, back to the time of a literal wire connection between parties. Many/most audio mixers (in the context of live music and recording) and their digital brethren us…

I think Discord gets the UX right:

Default state is mic active. There’s no slash through the mic, when you speak (and it’s above the noise cancellation threshold) you’ll get a green indicator on your name in the participant list. Press mute, you get a slash through the mic and you get the same indicator, in red, next to your name in the participant list. So in many ways they do both.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#198

Post by FridgeSeal »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #68
derekp7 wrote: post #6

This has been really frustrating to me lately with Microsoft Teams. If I'm in their app, the mute button is a microphone with a line through it (if mute is activated, i.e. if the mic is off). And the icon changes to a microphone without the slash over it to indicate that you are no longer muted. Makes sense. But if I join using the phone app on my phone, the same microphone with a line through it (that means you are…

Discord is worse. Their buttons for mute-microphone and turn-off-camera are inverses of each other.

I hadn’t noticed- or struggled with this, but I guess it makes sense.

The channels are primarily audio and stream focused, with users video being second in priority (makes sense when you consider its initial target audience).

So by default mic is active, video is not.

When you mute yourself, you get a “muted” indicator next to your name anyway.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#199

Post by FridgeSeal »

beezlewax wrote: post #176
empath-nirvana wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack is similarly confusing. I've really never seen a conferencing app that does this well.

Zoom has mute or unmute coupled with icons the least silly choice I've seen regarding this.

Unfortunately, every other UX and technical choice zoom makes is so pants on head dumb, that is disqualifies them from being taken seriously.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#200

Post by csydas »

derekp7 wrote: post #6

This has been really frustrating to me lately with Microsoft Teams. If I'm in their app, the mute button is a microphone with a line through it (if mute is activated, i.e. if the mic is off). And the icon changes to a microphone without the slash over it to indicate that you are no longer muted. Makes sense. But if I join using the phone app on my phone, the same microphone with a line through it (that means you are…

I don't mean to just blanket shit on Teams, but Teams is just a confusing mess of UI choices and UX design that makes no sense even within the context of using Teams. The meeting icons are of course pretty awful as you cited, but it's even more things for me [0]:

- When joining a Teams call, the toggle for video gets "selected" so that pressing Return or spacebar (I think one or both) will toggle the video on -- noticing that you did this or that the video toggle is selected is a matter of chance as it's hard to see

- For some bizarre reason Teams has a "start call" shortcut that just immediately starts a call without the usual pre-call warning items. Joining a meeting from your calendar gives you a "pre-meeting room" where you can confirm your mic/video settings before joining, but hitting the call shortcut or button immediately starts a call

- Sometimes right-click menu loads slowly and additional options load after you right-click and move the mouse -- it so happens this will usually put the cursor on Pinning the message instead of selecting reply or edit

- Regarding Reply/Edit, there is a nice button to jump right to both, but for chats one button is showed, for private messages another is shown

- All teams messages are linkable; whether or not you right-clicked on a link in the message and are copying the link or if you're getting a link to the message itself depends on if you happen to notice whether you have 2 options on right-click or 3+ options

- Copying a linked item (e.g., document, media, picture) will have Download or Copy Link button. Copy link for some reason puts up a text box across the conversation you're having that is dismissible with escape or clicking usual x in box corner -- other "copy link" options just copy the link normally, other ones (like copying channel link) will open a window with the link for you to copy

- it is huge pain for me personally that the links you copy from Teams are Sharepoint links and pasting it in a browser tries to open files in Sharepoint browser, even if Sharepoint absolutely cannot display a preview of the file: you sit while Sharepoint tries to load a preview, and only after a few seconds of Sharepoint trying does it show you a download button to get the file (thankfully there are browser extensions like Redirector [1] which can be used to create redirects for auto-downloads...just Microsoft likes to change the URL for actual downloads relatively often so occasionally you need to update your redirects..)

Teams is so inconsistent and the UI and UX are equally inconsistent -- Teams is also not shy about showing tutorial prompts for features just whenever it wants to, no matter how long you've been using Teams, sometimes it will just block the entire app to highlight some feature it wants to advertise. I honestly don't think this or anything has to do with flat UI versus other ones, it's just plain lack of attention. maybe flat ui's give the impression of a "completed" thing, but I just can't see that most of the UI/UX issues for apps like Teams are about the aesthetic so much as just a complete lack of concern over what actually using the app is like.

0 - All points here were observed on vanilla teams installations on different computers -- maybe my work just has weird defaults, but I'm not confident that is the case

1 - https://github.com/einaregilsson/Redirector

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