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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

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Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#191

Post by darreninthenet »

beAbU wrote: post #146
darreninthenet wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really have no idea how to reply to this without sounding like an ass so apologies in advance. Well yeah duh if the door was shut properly every time fridges wouldn't need door or temperature alarms at all (most have an audible one already). But it's called an alarm for a reason, sometimes shit goes wrong and it's handy to know before all the food has been at room temperature all day. We had a freezer door pop open…

At least you apologised in advance You make the perfect argument for a physical alarm. I agree, that makes perfect sense, and is a cheap addition that significantly improves quality of life. Will you be woken up by a midnight phone notification that the fridge is open? I tend to sleep stuff like that. Does a once in 40 years mistake justify carrying an app around that does god knows what else, and the extra expense a…

My point about the alarm is that I have neighbours or friends who are willing to pop around and sort shit out.

People are taking this waaaayyyy out of context. I said it was handy. I didn't say it was a must feature or even one that make me choose a particular model or pay more for. But the fact my current fridge/freezer does it is a nice handy extra... I already have a billion things that spy on me, gather data so no I'm not particularly worried about what my fridge knows about me, the cameras all over the country I cannot avoid know far more already.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#192

Post by arter4 »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #182
arter4 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying a fridge takes a photo (of itself, essentially... a selfie?), forwards it with certain prompts to a GPT and then gives you the response. But as I said earlier I might not like certain foods, or I may actively avoid certain foods for medical or religious reasons. Now, if this was an explicit user-GPT interaction, you could prompt the GPT with "hey, I'm Muslim, what can I cook with this stuff?" or "hey…

In fridge it takes images from different angles, and different floors to make sure it is possible to identify all the items that exist in that fridge. If you don't like certain foods, you can just customise the prompt that fridge sends to OpenAI. You can customise it through a web app or mobile app. > you would have to tell your fridge you're Jew or Muslim or lactose intolerant or diabetic. Don't you see an issue wit…

Sure but it's something more for barely any actual advantage.

I accept that when I Google something Google and maybe other companies know what I searched, because Googling things is useful. I cannot bring an encyclopaedia and a detailed map of the whole world with me all the time, so it's a tradeoff I can accept.

I accept that, on the rare occasions I turn geolocation, someone will know where I am, because if I do turn it on, it's probably because I got lost. Then I turn it off and off we go.

Divulging food preferences for... an AI that suggests me what I should buy doesn't look like it's worth it. And it's not just food preferences. Remember people store medications in their fridge. A fridge so advanced it can recognize any food is probably capable of reading labels and knowing I bought medication for X,Y and Z. Which is definitely something I'm not explicitly telling people (or things) without a reason.

And don't forget the power of correlating data. Correlating food preferences with other data you could easily understand if someone is ill, pregnant, whether they follow a certain religion (think Ramadan, or not eating meat on Friday,...), whether they are living with someone else (buying twice the amount of stuff they usually buy?) and so on.

This is all stuff I try to avoid telling everyone. Yes, my doctor could be hacked and people could know I'm on medication anyway (hypothetically), but why divulge that voluntarily for essentially no reason?

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#193

Post by darreninthenet »

bell-cot wrote: post #169
darreninthenet wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fridge/freezer one is handy for temperature and door open alarms

I'd say a temperature alarm - if I happen to feel I need one - should be a physically separate little thing. With it's own programmable temperature range. Usually it's in the fridge. But during a cold spell, I can adjust and move it to a spot where I'm worried the pipes might freeze. Or turn it into a "is the A/C working?" watchdog during a heat wave. Or, I can buy several to cover all those. But they're all one make…

I said it was handy not something I would go out of my way to get... the fridge has it so it's useful. I don't understand why so many people on here are so offended by a useful feature that from most people's perspective is just a feature the fridge has rather than one they shopped for.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#194

Post by nolist_policy »

starkparker wrote: post #38

Bought a dumb white top-freezer Whirlpool fridge 11 years ago (WRT359). No water dispenser, no ice maker, not even a light in the freezer; temperature and airflow controls were just knobs. The freezer drain line ran inside the back panel and was a PITA to clean, and the butter compartment lid squeaked so loudly that it was physically painful, but otherwise it was solid. Had no issues until the plastic drain pan crack…

Plus that Duet chromebook tablet gets updates till 2030, which is over and beyond the update lifecycle you'll get for any smart appliance.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#195

Post by rglullis »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #184
rglullis wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are ok with those I'm not. My phone, laptop and computers all run software that I get to install down to the OS (Linux, /e/OS), and I would never install something like the ChatGPT app on my phone. > it should be possible to build those smart devices with similar security It should be possible, but they are not. Don't forget: the "S" in IoT stands for "Security". In any case, this is not even what I am talki…

> by the way, my home is full of microphones and video cameras which are always on and used to power my digital assistant Everyone are already walking around with smart phones that are perfectly able to do all of that. > I'm not. My phone, laptop and computers all run software that I get to install down to the OS (Linux, /e/OS), and I would never install something like the ChatGPT app on my phone. Fine if you do that…

> Everyone are already walking around with smart phones that are perfectly able to do all of that.

Being able to do it is not the same as actually doing it.

The rest of your argument, sorry but I can not respond without feeling angry. It just feels like the rationalizations of a selfish, too-clever-by-half neomaniac.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#196

Post by freetanga »

msadowski wrote: post #5

I’m about to buy all the appliances to a new place in Europe and could use some more horror stories and learn which brands to avoid. So far I’ve been told to stay away from Samsung ovens. Anyone has any regrets on appliances?

Bosch - Siemens and Balay are the same builder with three different brands. Seems many times the core elements are the same. Balay is the cheapest, I think Bosch is their top line.

All 3 are quite good, and knowing this you can try to get more bang for your money.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#197

Post by mgaunard »

The only appliances I ever had that failed on me are those that I inherited from a previous owner or tenant.

Having a good reliable appliance is just a matter of buying good stuff and caring for it properly.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#198

Post by arter4 »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #188
arter4 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but while you can install Linux on your own, or even build your own computer if you're interested, you don't get to build a fridge or its operating system, and you most likely don't even have a valid way to see how it's configured (you may be able to hack it somehow, but it would probably void any warranty). So... do you upgrade your fridge OS? Maybe, maybe not. What happens if you do and an upgrade fails? does i…

> Yes but while you can install Linux on your own, or even build your own computer if you're interested, you don't get to build a fridge or its operating system, and you most likely don't even have a valid way to see how it's configured (you may be able to hack it somehow, but it would probably void any warranty). You could install open sourced things to that fridge. E.g. the fridge could either come with sensors imm…

>These basic things like light and other base features you make sure can work even if smart software fails.

Even ignoring the potential privacy concerns, you're assuming too much in terms of reliability.

When an AWS region went down a couple of years ago, a lot of smart fridges and lights didn't work properly (https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-...).

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#199

Post by account-5 »

bee_rider wrote: post #123
NullPrefix wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy American food - pizza is my favorite and Chinese would be the next best thing

American food is fun, we took everybody else’s food and then deep fried it. How could someone not enjoy it, right?

Scotland has Americans beat on that respect. Deep fat fried mars bars and pizzas, you name it.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#200

Post by arter4 »

darreninthenet wrote: post #193
bell-cot wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say a temperature alarm - if I happen to feel I need one - should be a physically separate little thing. With it's own programmable temperature range. Usually it's in the fridge. But during a cold spell, I can adjust and move it to a spot where I'm worried the pipes might freeze. Or turn it into a "is the A/C working?" watchdog during a heat wave. Or, I can buy several to cover all those. But they're all one make…

I said it was handy not something I would go out of my way to get... the fridge has it so it's useful. I don't understand why so many people on here are so offended by a useful feature that from most people's perspective is just a feature the fridge has rather than one they shopped for.

I personally am not offended by a feature. I wouldn't march on the streets to denounce this or anything like that.

What I am saying (though I cannot speak for anyone) is that I, on the contrary, would go out of my way to not get, not because I have thin foil hat or whatever, but because the reliability and privacy concerns this kind of thing carries far outweigh (in my scale) the benefit of having something that will come in useful once in a decade.

Note that things like that have already happened.

When an AWS region went down, things like doorbells and lights stopped working properly (https://financialpost.com/technology/personal-tech/pitfalls-...). Which, if you think about it, is ridiculous. I cannot turn my lights on because somewhere, potentially thousands of miles away, some datacenters failed, even if those datacenters could, ostensibly, only give me ads and "improvements" and not any core feature.

And when it comes to privacy, Roomba employees posted on Facebook picture of a woman on the toilet, a picture that was taken by the Roomba itself while cleaning (https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...). Now, you might say that the Roomba algorithm has to train a lot to be able to work properly, but why take pictures? And why upload them to the Internet?

Of course everyone makes their own judgement calls. I'm not offended if anyone gets smart fridges or voice activated lights.

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