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US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

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Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#191

Post by janalsncm »

wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

> Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail.

All governments fail, it’s only a question of when. The stability of the US is in no small part due to its geography and natural wealth. Having two oceans on each side and more arable land than you know what to do with is far more of an asset anything written on paper. It seriously reduces the threat of external and internal conflict, and the US got this for a song.

Further, there’s a strong argument to be made that the US did not last this entire time. The centralization that happened after the Civil War created a fundamentally different government than was created in 1789. Through the process of incorporation, constitutional amendments were enforced on states which created a far more uniform country.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#193

Post by [deleted] »

wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

[deleted]

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#194

Post by quickthrowman »

foldr wrote: post #121
wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

If the goal is just sustaining government then there are lots of countries without those features that have a longer history of sustained government than the US.

There are three governments that have existed longer than the US. Sweden, UK, Denmark.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fo...

Microstates don’t count.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#195

Post by pi-e-sigma »

ianburrell wrote: post #153
hangonhn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most modern constitutional monarchies just a veneer over a republican democracy anyways? The monarch wields no real power -- even if on paper they may still retain a great deal. The US system is notoriously bad to get working and really seems to only work for the US. Anywhere else we have tried it has ended with some kind of failure. However, it's reasonable to call the parliamentary systems like the UK republ…

The important difference isn't between monarchy or republic, but how the executive is chosen. Parliamentary democracies elect the prime minister. Presidential democracies have separate executive. For example, Ireland is parliamentary republic; the president is only head of state, the prime minister has all the power.

That's not true. It varies by country, in some most power is hold by president, in some by premier, yet in some it's a mixture. But I don't know any country with a premier who is elected by the people. He is either selected by president or is the leader of the winning party. The executive can be chosen in various ways in a monarchy, too, because there are constitutional monarchies, too, where power of a monarch is limited (famously the UK is still a constitutional monarchy, but their monarch holds almost no power, but it wasn't so historically). You obviously only had the worst kind of monarchy in mind, the absolute monarchy

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#196

Post by quickthrowman »

hn8305823 wrote: post #24
bombcar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of industries are practically self-inspected, even when inspectors exist. For example, take construction engineering; the government doesn't fully inspect every single submitted drawing, they may spot check here and there and make sure the paperwork is filled out, but the final duty rests with the engineer of record. Same with building inspections, they're no where near detailed and long enough to c…

> For example, take construction engineering; the government doesn't fully inspect every single submitted drawing, they may spot check here and there and make sure the paperwork is filled out, but the final duty rests with the engineer of record. This doesn't always end well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1031_Canal#Partial_collapse_du...

It would be virtually impossible to fully review every construction drawing for accuracy, there are just too many of them. Nothing would ever get built.

Most jurisdictions will do plan review, but it’s not a thorough check of the engineering.

I would assume structural drawing sets are checked a bit more closely than say, the interior architectural drawing set, but mistakes still happen.

Plus, whoever was the PE of record on the structural drawings for the hard rock parking ramp will never sign another set, they’re done as an engineer, possibly they’ll see prison if they were negligent. That won’t bring any peace to the victims families, but it’s something.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#197

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

brightball wrote: post #125
tw04 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And government should only have as much power as you think the worst possible people in charge should have. This immediately falls apart, by that logic we should literally have no government or society to speak of. "Only as much power as you think the worst possible person should have" would mean literally no power - there isn't a single decision in my life I would pass off to the worst person I could think of. Wha…

> there isn't a single decision in my life I would pass off to the worst person I could think of This is actually the point though. You shouldn't have to give power to an individual. If you're going to, you should give that power to a group of individuals who have to agree for the thing to move forward. And then have checks on that group as well. I live in South Carolina and one of the things I like about how this st…

The discussion was about giving power to an entire government, not an individual.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#198

Post by _ea1k »

mattcantstop wrote: post #171

40,000 deaths each year in the United States resulting from cars, and nobody lifts a finger. The side of a plane pops off a few miles up in the air and everybody loses their minds.

I wouldn't say that nobody lifts a finger. There's a lot of analysis going on each year to try to improve the situation. And vehicle automation is seemingly starting to make progress on reducing various collision types, especially with pedestrians.

But the fixes are much more complex and will necessarily take a lot more time.

If your point is that we don't think enough about vehicular deaths, except for the ones that are in some way newsworthy, then I think you are completely right. Even worse, we don't account for lives saved and this skews perception in odd and potentially detrimental ways.

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#199

Post by happytiger »

wanderingmind wrote: post #101

As an aside, For all those who talk about corruption and getting money out of politics I suggest reading Federalist 10 by Madison. Its a deep analysis of a need for a republican democracy. Any government that depends on human virtuousness will fail. The only way to have a sustainable government is to have strong checks and balances and putting multiple factions with different interests against one another.

This is precisely why the Department of Homeland Security was such a bad idea.

For anyone interested, the only thing I can add of use to this thoughtful comment is a link to the paper:

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed10.asp

Re: US regulator considers stripping Boeing's right to self-inspect planes

#200

Post by pi-e-sigma »

vkou wrote: post #98
shutupnerd0000 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All very upstanding and incorrupt organizations

Would you like to tell us how the NYSE is corrupt? Or do they just get tarred with 'Well, they work in finance, of course they are all crooks' brush?

Just google what they do when they don't like some trades
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