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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#191

Post by heresie-dabord »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #61
ur-whale wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the sentiment, please remember that actually buying BTC directly and doing self-custody is still an option.

The mob always wins in the end, but I never understood why many on HN have been so cynical about Bitcoin. At least Satoshi tried, whoever they were. They gave a gift to the world, but it sadly got co-opted and taken over first by small-time grifters and now by the big boys at Wall Street. In hindsight it was probably bound to happen, because money buys influence and a casual decentralized group of coders can never wi…

> I never understood why many on HN have been so cynical [...]

You ask the question and then proceed to answer it.

> Satoshi [...] gave a gift to the world, but it sadly got co-opted [...] In hindsight it was probably bound to happen, because money buys influence

Because anything of value and fungible will invite exploitation by monied interests.

> and taken over first by small-time grifters and now by the big boys at Wall Street.

There is ample evidence to indicate that the predominant grifters are not small-time operators.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#192

Post by tempestn »

anonu wrote: post #170
maxioatic wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then I have to pay taxes on it. Time to full send my retirement accounts into these ETFs so I can retire early. /s Actually though I might consider allocating a tiny percentage (1-3%) to these. Seems like fairly low risk with enough upside, but who knows.

These are cash creates not in kind creates. So there is no escaping taxes. You will be paying capital gains just by holding spot Bitcoin ETFs Edit: after further research it appears that the cash create mechanism doesn't cause a tax event for shareholders as it does with mutual funds. See https://www.grayscale.com/blog/legal-topics/addressing-poten... We will have to see how every Bitcoin ETF is structured. YMMV depe…

I think the parent is talking about buying the ETF inside a tax sheltered account.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#194

Post by transcriptase »

lxgr wrote: post #189
transcriptase wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as anything else really: A sheet of paper and a safety deposit box. You die, your heir or executor takes the appropriate paperwork to the bank, and then they get the contents of the box.

How many people even have a safety deposit box? Many banks don't offer them anymore, and in some countries they have a disturbing tendency of getting robbed, with absolutely no recourse for the depositors (since contents are usually unverified and uninsured).

Then buy a large fire safe, bolt it to your floor inside a closet, and fill it with 10 lb barbell plates until it requires a forklift to move.

If your threat model includes someone inside your home with power tools and you can’t trust a bank… you might want to consider moving.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#195

Post by thefourthchime »

earnesti wrote: post #180
CyberDildonics wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency still works the same as it ever did. I would be more concerned that the average bitcoin transactions costs over $11 dollars (down from over $37 USD a month ago) https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...

What about Lightning Network?

That's off chain and should be nearly free

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#196

Post by tempestn »

fancyfredbot wrote: post #95
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's going to bother with that now - what's the point? This is actually a great comment that I think applies well to the crypto world as a whole, even if that wasn't your original intent.

I will own up to trolling slightly to draw attention to the fact that exhanging bitcoin as a digital currency is not something which would occur to most people who own it. The only thing most people will do with their bitcoin is exchange it for fiat.

That and hodl it, hoping it'll someday be worth more.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#197

Post by jdewerd »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #153
hackernudes wrote: post #144

The only thing I am concerned about is "paper bitcoin" and rehypothecation. Is there anything published about how ETF entities might prove they have custody of the amount of bitcoin they claim (in other words, proof of reserves)?

You sign a message with your private key. This has been solved since day 1 of bitcoin's existence.

You can prove presence of assets, you can't prove absence of liabilities, and you can't audit the balance sheet without seeing both sides.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#198

Post by tempestn »

sapphicsnail wrote: post #147
loceng wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only worth something if someone else values it vs. physical gold.

Gold's value is mostly disconnected from it's utility. We've just decided it's valuable for a longer period of time so less people question it.

The time period is part of it, but I think the physicality matters too. You can debate gold's inherent value as you can with bitcoin, but you can't argue that it's not even a thing that exists. You also can't create more of it - which some would argue you can't with bitcoin either, but all it would take is consensus. Plus one could argue that other coins are equivalent goods.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#199

Post by jekrb »

lxgr wrote: post #185
jekrb wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone will have different behavior sec for their funds, with the options now ranging from simply committing a 12 or 24 word seed phrase to memory and buying ETF shares. There is shamir secret splitting, multisig, MPC, secure enclaves with biometerics, etc... There will be apps like Fuse wallet: https://www.fusewallet.com/ There will be phones like Saga: https://solanamobile.com/hardware I think how one han…

> simply committing a 12 or 24 word seed phrase to memory That's absolutely out of the question for almost any human being, especially given the timeframes involved. > There will be phones like Saga [...] There will be apps like Fuse wallet: [...] Again, we're talking about a timeframe of decades. How many of these will even still boot up after that amount of time? None of these seem safe to just throw in a bank safe…

My point is there are thousands of ways to handle your wallets, I don't think there will be one average way.

The ETF is probably the equivalent of this "espresso style" k-cup https://www.keurig.com/Beverages/Dark-Roast/Espresso-Style-C...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#200

Post by lxgr »

transcriptase wrote: post #194
lxgr wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people even have a safety deposit box? Many banks don't offer them anymore, and in some countries they have a disturbing tendency of getting robbed, with absolutely no recourse for the depositors (since contents are usually unverified and uninsured).

Then buy a large fire safe, bolt it to your floor inside a closet, and fill it with 10 lb barbell plates until it requires a forklift to move. If your threat model includes someone inside your home with power tools and you can’t trust a bank… you might want to consider moving.

Given that people probably don't arrange their life around the ability to safeguard physical assets, I think you've just given several good arguments against self-custody:

Many people don't own a home. Not all of those that do want to expose themselves to the liability of storing valuables there. The safety situation between homes even within the US varies greatly, and even more so internationally. Banks with safety deposit boxes aren't ubiquitous.

If it works for you, great! I'm just saying that you might be in the minority here.

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