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Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

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Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#191

Post by SoftTalker »

fragmede wrote: post #168
SoftTalker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't personal on their part. It might be a bit rude but if you're going into the corporate world, get used to that. Just move on, if you're sitting there stewing about getting "ghosted", you can be sure they are not. I don't think it would bother me any more than getting a templated, cliche rejection letter.

It's less about the feelings going around, and more that the hiring committee managed to meet, decided against a candidate, and then the recruiter can't be bothered to give a candidate a canned "no"? What does a recruiter do? Doom scroll on Linkedin for $70k/yr?

Yeah the recruiter could spend some time preparing and sending communications back to all the candidates who were interviewed and then rejected, or could spend that time working on finding candidates for other positions he's trying to fill. What is he going to be incentivized to do?

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#192

Post by fnordpiglet »

gumby wrote: post #187
fnordpiglet wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only a few bigger companies than the ones I’ve been at. I only do the sourcing, and the HR side I leave to recruiting. The bottleneck in the process is the sourcing, and I have no desire to do HRs job. On statistics, they only care about the statistics for their own sourcers and processes. There is no regulatory reason for collecting such stats. Another thing to remember is HR is the weakest organization in…

Ah, you're doing the sourcing part, which indeed is the thing i-house recruiters are worst at (despite being compensated just for that!). Sorry I misunderstood. With reference bonuses, I think most companies do appreciate having their employees do sourcing, which makes your observation that you can't get others to do it all the stranger.

Almost all companies prevent hiring managers from receiving bonuses for their own referrals. I was hiring my own team, rather than using internal or external recruiters.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#193

Post by chrismcb »

filoleg wrote: post #147
LargeTomato wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a rocket startup. 1/3 ex SpaceX. 1/3 ex Google/Facebook. I interviewed a guy and asked him, essentially, "find the biggest number in a 2D array". This guy spent half an hour struggling because he "wasn't sure how to look through the grid in a circle pattern". You'd be incredibly surprised who gets interviews.

> "wasn't sure how to look through the grid in a circle pattern" Now I am curious to know whether I am too dense to get it or if the candidate was just that off the mark. Is circle pattern sorta like iterating through a 2d array like a spiral (i.e., outer layer of the 2d-shape first, then one deeper, etc.)? And if yes, why would that ever be useful for just searching for a specific value in a 2d array? I get how it c…

I think the point of the OP was A the person wanted to solve this in a spiral pattern, which isn't necessary. And B didn't know how to do a spiral pattern, which is fairly simple. As to your other question, unless it is directed you need to look at each element. The real question is how to iterate over a 2d array. There are several methods and really that is all this question is looking for.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#194

Post by chrismcb »

solatic wrote: post #28

Both of the following can be true at the same time: 1. I personally owe a response to anyone who reaches out to me, in a timely manner, even if that answer is no, because to intentionally ignore a request is unethical. 2. I will strive to have built up many and different areas in my life, such that my sense of confidence is not impacted by the actions or inactions of people who are, in essence, strangers. If you want…

I don't think ghosting has anything to do with 1 or 2. And there is a huge difference between cold calling someone without getting a result and meeting someone face to face and then being ghosted. Personally I'm not to hung up on small companies that do it. But later companies or recruiters, there is just no excuse. Especially for a recruiter, who's job it is to communicate with potential employees. Who knows maybe you'll find a different job for me down the line? The problem really comes into play when they say they will get back to you in a few weeks... And then never do..

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#195

Post by chrismcb »

A "few" years ago (back in the last economic crisis) I was job hunting. Interviewed with a ton of people, and almost no one would get back to you. A few did, but most just ghosted me. I just found myself back in the job hunt, but this time almost everyone sent me a response. It sucks getting a "no" but I'd rather get a "you are the worst programmer in the world, go jump on a lake" than get boring at all. I did one interview, had to give a presentation, out a lot of time into it. Never to hear from them again. But the point is, it was definitely better this time around (well better in the housing sense)

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#197

Post by JohnFen »

varispeed wrote: post #137
CM30 wrote: post #19

The new normal? This has been the case for years for almost all job applications. Maybe if you're lucky and the company has put you through like 4 rounds of interviews you might get feedback, but the general rule seems to be that useful feedback for an interview is the exception rather than the norm. And heck, even that isn't something you can rely on. I've had a fair few interviews get about 80% of the way through t…

Also why would you need feedback? Every company is different and will have different requirements and expectations. Unless you are doing something universally bad (like didn't shower before going out), there is not much that feedback could help you with other than make you start acting like someone you are not. If you acted on the interview and you got hired, you'll be expected to continue the act probably for as lon…

Feedback can be very useful in order to let you see things you may be doing wrong in the interview process that you're unaware of. Perhaps you are emphasizing the wrong things, or failing to highlight the right things. Perhaps there are social aspects, customs, other norms that you're deviating too far from. Perhaps you go into an interview without a good knowledge of the company you're applying to, etc.

There are a million little things that can be easily adjusted to improve your chances, and feedback is the only way that you'll know which ones matter. The feedback from a single interview isn't helpful, but the feedback from many interviews lets you spot patterns.

> If you acted on the interview and you got hired, you'll be expected to continue the act probably for as long as you work there.

There is a small kernel of truth here, but this overstates it immensely. Firstly, you shouldn't ever "be someone you're not" -- but adjusting your tactics and adapting to your audience does not have to mean pretending you're somebody else. Second, interviews are performative and everyone knows it. In an interview, you're engaging in a sales presentation. Nobody expects that people will behave identically in everyday work as they did in the interview.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#198

Post by JohnFen »

davedx wrote: post #103

Jeez. On one hand, sure, it’s frustrating when this happens. But for everyone trying to get hired out there: don’t just sit passively waiting for results - call your damn recruiter on the phone! Recruiters are human and yes they make mistakes. Sometimes a phone call may actually result in jiggling you along in the process and actually make the difference between getting hired or not. Don’t sit at home and feel sad an…

I didn't even realize that this had to be said until you said it. Yes, you should 100% follow up on this stuff. Looking for a position requires being proactive, and the effort required doesn't end when the interview does.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#199

Post by JohnFen »

wutangisforever wrote: post #16

As someone who interviewed in the bay for the last 7 years, ghosting is pretty normal on both sides of the equation. It totally sucks when you go through the process and don't hear anything back but I also take it as a sign of feedback that I didn't kill on the interview. I have ghosted a ton on interviews, never purposely but things get lost in the shuffle if you aren't super passionate about the company It isn't a…

> ghosting is pretty normal on both sides of the equation.

I like that you mentioned this. As a job-seeker, if you've interviewed at a number of places and decided to take a position with one of them, letting the others know that you're no longer on the market is just as important as them letting you know if they've decided not to hire you, for all the same reasons.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#200

Post by JohnFen »

sevagh wrote: post #123
optymizer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerey hope nobody reads this and thinks "I should start ghosting too". We want less ghosting in this process, not more.

Operating with integrity in a domain where nobody else is is a shortcut to getting fucked.

My experience is that operating with integrity in a domain where nobody else is gives you a tremendous advantage over "the competition" and can be self-protective.
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