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Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

fda.gov

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Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#191

Post by callalex »

fallingknife wrote: post #27
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

I'm certainly in favor of these regulations that require supplements and food products to accurately list ingredients. I'm also in favor of the FDA coming down hard on violators. But it seems perfectly reasonable that law enforcement should have to play whack a mole. That's kind and of how it works with innocent until proven guilty. I'm not a fan of the whole "you enforce it for us or we come after you" approach. In…

Innocent until proven guilty only applies to individual people, not corporate entities.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#192

Post by Baldbvrhunter »

stickfigure wrote: post #185
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

Genuine question: What level of scrutiny do you think Amazon should provide here? In vaguely increasing level of detail/effort, it could be... * Checking the published label of items for illicit content * Checking the contents of one bottle for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all bottles for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all pills in all bottles for undeclared ingredients ...etc.…

It is an interesting question.

How much cocaine goes via Amazon?

Or ephedrine, or ecstasy... Etc

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#193

Post by giarc »

stickfigure wrote: post #185
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

Genuine question: What level of scrutiny do you think Amazon should provide here? In vaguely increasing level of detail/effort, it could be... * Checking the published label of items for illicit content * Checking the contents of one bottle for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all bottles for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all pills in all bottles for undeclared ingredients ...etc.…

GNC (and likely other online supplement stores) have an online presence and likely has some QA for the products they sell. Amazon just insists on having 1,000,000+ listings for supplements rather than a more curated list. Perhaps some categories shouldn't have endless list of products.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#194

Post by drc500free »

asveikau wrote: post #73
techbrovanguard wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I read it as sarcasm, but I guess you can't tell these days. (Where these days is at least 20 years) You won't buy such a cable twice because it will burn down your house and risk killing you, hence, you're not buying it a second time as a dead person. Obviously no flaws in that logic.

Poe's Law in action.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#195

Post by dragonwriter »

callalex wrote: post #191
fallingknife wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certainly in favor of these regulations that require supplements and food products to accurately list ingredients. I'm also in favor of the FDA coming down hard on violators. But it seems perfectly reasonable that law enforcement should have to play whack a mole. That's kind and of how it works with innocent until proven guilty. I'm not a fan of the whole "you enforce it for us or we come after you" approach. In…

Innocent until proven guilty only applies to individual people, not corporate entities.

Incorrect, innocent until proven guilty applies generally (but, as “guilty” applies specifically to criminal law, only there, but to juridical persons as well as natural ones; but the concept is not far removed from that of due process, which applies even outside of criminal law.)

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#196

Post by verall »

stickfigure wrote: post #185
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

Genuine question: What level of scrutiny do you think Amazon should provide here? In vaguely increasing level of detail/effort, it could be... * Checking the published label of items for illicit content * Checking the contents of one bottle for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all bottles for undeclared ingredients * Checking the contents of all pills in all bottles for undeclared ingredients ...etc.…

Supplements should probably not be sold in a marketplace fashion by fly-by-night distributors by a major trusted brand (amazon).

Businesses that sell supplements should create trusted relationships with their suppliers to not break the rules and to limit their own liability.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#197

Post by ssgodderidge »

1920musicman wrote: post #171
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

I searched for all products mentioned in the letter - they are all gone. Amazon is quick to react to such public letters to pretend that they are a responsible company. Saying that, the search returns hundreds of other supplements in the same category, with similar nonsensical names. They are certainly attempting to play wack-a-mole.

I think the speed to remove the noted items isn’t suspect; it’s what I would expect a responsible company to do in this scenario.

However, I am curious to see how Amazon handles the other drugs. Seems like pausing the sale of the entire category is the right call

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#198

Post by dahart »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #162
dahart wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can’t impute motivation. Correct, you’re right, I was speculating on alternative reasons people might avoid the doctor. We also don’t have evidence that the cost or time of a doctors visit is the reason for the existence of the black market demand, contrary to your claim above. Of course, a huge risk for black market purchases is that they turn out to be fake and/or have unlisted harmful ingredients. It’s alread…

> co-pay and a quick Zoom call with a doc seems like a better choice to me Nobody is arguing it isn’t. The point is the forced choice is flawed. There wouldn’t be a market for the adultered stuff if the medicine were OTC.

> The point is the forced choice is flawed. There wouldn’t be a market for the adulterated stuff if the medicine were OTC.

You haven’t convinced me that there’s anything wrong with the regulation. There might be, but again, the existence of a black market is not a valid reason to relax the regulation. The black market exists for guns and heroine and antibiotics and certain types of illegal porn too, not to mention crazier things like bazookas. You wouldn’t argue any of those should be less regulated just because you can buy them on the black market right? What actual reasons justify deregulating Sildenafil?

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#199

Post by giarc »

blagie wrote: post #158
throw__away7391 wrote: post #5

Nothing bought on Amazon should be consumed or applied topically or otherwise come into prolonged contact with your body. I learned this the hard way a few years back with some counterfeit shampoo that severely burned my scalp after a single use.

Here's my list of things I won't buy on Amazon.com: - Anything which goes in or on my body (foods, medicines, etc.). - Anything which is easily knocked off (SD cards, memory, SSDs, etc.) - Bed sheets (oddly enough, you'll often get lies on materials and fabric) - Thing I need reliably / reliably on-time (I cancelled Prime after several shipping issues) Since I cancelled Prime, things added to this list include: - Mos…

Hate to break it to you, but Aliexpress is likely less reliable than Amazon (or have the exact same products). eBay is likely the same and Walmart allows 3rd party sellers so it's pretty much the same as Amazon unless you source the products curated by Walmart.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#200

Post by 1920musicman »

ssgodderidge wrote: post #197
1920musicman wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I searched for all products mentioned in the letter - they are all gone. Amazon is quick to react to such public letters to pretend that they are a responsible company. Saying that, the search returns hundreds of other supplements in the same category, with similar nonsensical names. They are certainly attempting to play wack-a-mole.

I think the speed to remove the noted items isn’t suspect; it’s what I would expect a responsible company to do in this scenario. However, I am curious to see how Amazon handles the other drugs. Seems like pausing the sale of the entire category is the right call

The category these supplements were listed under is "Sports Nutrition Endurance & Energy Products" with some legitimate products listed under it. I doubt Amazon would delist the entire category. But also, something tells me that sellers would just list products under a different category without any meaningful consequences.

E.g. these or similar tainted supplements could be listed under "Health, Household, and Body Care" (a very broad category that already has products like "stripfast5000 Fire Bullet Capsules with K-CYTRO for Women and Men" listed under it), etc.

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