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Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

191–200 of 471 posts

Re: Generation Junk

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the high end stuff is crap too. You get a toaster with wifi and a touch screen and an app instead of something that works.

The other day I was telling my wife that the next blender I'll get will be a "fuck you" blender. That's the name I gave to an old blender I had 25 years ago when I lived on my own while studying. The blender was an Oster brand and only had an on/off switch. I sold it to a friend when I left that city. Fast forward 25 years, my friend told me that his mom is still using the same blender. No programs, no memories, no m…

Oster still sells a blender with a single toggle switch. I have it. Its's loud as hell but it works. Cheap, too.

Re: Generation Junk

#192
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a mind-boggling anecdote. As an example, Crate and Barrel are known to make good, high-quality couches, and many of them are far less than $5000

I think you and the parent likely have different standards of quality. Crate and Barrel makes nicer couches but they're still made the same way with the same materials as what you get from Value City Furniture. They're still engineered wood, polyblend fabric and filling, and "genuine" leather. It's really hard to find anything non-antique that uses better materials or craftsmanship. They do exist and I own a few piec…

I don't think this is true. This is (more or less) the couch that I've owned since late 2019: https://www.crateandbarrel.com/axis-2-piece-sectional-sofa/s...

From the page:

* $3500 (I believe I paid $3000 in 2019)

* Frames are benchmade with hardwood that's kiln-dried to prevent warping

* Hardwood legs

* Polyfoam seat cushions wrapped in fiber-down blend and encased in downproof ticking (is this "bad"? I think they're plenty comfortably and haven't shown any significant wear in the past four years)

Their leather version is $5000, so maybe the claim that good leather couches start at around $5000 has more truth: https://www.crateandbarrel.com/axis-leather-2-piece-sectiona...

Re: Generation Junk

#193
Speaking from my own experience (anec-data being a home-owner for about 20 years and a member of a family who owned a home my entire life).

(1) How "high-end" something is does not equate to how long it will last or how reliable it will be. Sometimes it's entirely the opposite (early generation Plasma did not outlive CRT equivalents but cost substantially more).

(2) Targeting a specific brand "known historically (to you) as reliable" is pointless most of the time. All brands have levels, and the low end is same old crap.

(3) Consumer reports turned out to be a sometimes useless great resource. Often the model being recommended is no longer available. Buying the next model burned me -- badly -- because the following model year dishwasher was required to use less water (EPA), it was the first generation of this new design and it meant not really having a dishwasher.

(4) Dishwashers these days positively suck. I went through four of them in two years, returned two, resold one, suffering with the last (a Bosch that is -- at least -- quiet). The manual instructs not to pre-rinse the dishes, just "shake them off in the sink". Do they actually test these things with real food? Heaven forbid a kernel of Cocoa Krispies ends up on a bowl ... when mixed with milk and sent through a hot cleaning cycle, it turns into chocolate stone epoxied onto whatever in the hell it attached itself to. Oh, and that one kernel will turn into 40 little versions and attach themselves to everything.

My buddy has dishwasher-something-he-got-from-Sears from the 90s with a garbage disposal built in. You can put a Crock Pot with the leftover roast in the thing, put in your hearing protection, turn it on, and everything is shiny in about 60-90 minutes.

(5) There's a real market opportunity for a microwave without a weird UI. That's it: "without a weird UI". Mine has 25 buttons and a dial. Figuring out how to microwave something on anything other than "high" is sort of like figuring out an Escape Room. The microwave's "30 second" button sets the time for 30 seconds and starts it immediately. Hitting it again adds another 30 seconds. So that button's almost got a hole in the center where the text once was and the entire family either rounds up or stares at it until it's almost done, popping the door open with 15 seconds or so left. Of course, as a result of this behavior, the door safety switch is malfunctioning so you have to very slowly/carefully close the door while applying pressure in a very specific way or the microwave will refuse to start.

(6) Sometimes you'll buy a cheap-o gas mower with every intention of upgrading it "when it kicks the bucket". And sometimes that mower will run, faithfully, every week, 3 months a year for 25 years. Some will continue to start on the first or second pull despite still having the original spark plug, wires, air filter, having never been tuned up, maintained, or cleaned and despite it having only had oil added (never changed) ... twice? ... in 25 years, when it was blowing black smoke out the exhaust. Sometimes the thing you want to fail will outlive you.

Really ... do you need more than one button for "make it soggy and unevenly warm?"

Re: Generation Junk

#194
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were simpler and easier to repair, but they absolutely did not last longer.

On average they didn't (oh no, that repair costs more than the "car is worth" as if that's a metric that actually means anything) but it was far easier to keep one running indefinitely. You could take an engine to a small machine shop and get the head and block resurfaced, valves reamed and cylinders lapped. Without any electronics to fail it was just a block of metal that was slowly losing material and a quick hit w…

It’s the old fuel injection vs carburetor debate. Do you want something that usually runs for 200k miles without a single problem, but takes a fancy shop to fix? Or do you want something that needs a complete rebuild every three months and needs to be retuned for your ski trip, but can be repaired by a high school boy with a tongue depressor, a q-tip, and a hammer?

The rapid exodus of carburetors shocked and dismayed many right-to-repair folks, but I think we now see with laptops and cell phones that all else equal, consumer preference strongly favors trading repair headaches for the otherwise more compelling product (thinner, faster, lighter, more powerful, etc)

Re: Generation Junk

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past. Forget "durability" - safety is paramount. Those old cars were tanks, simpler, last longer and easier to repair but absolute death traps and dump smog. [Edit] Guess they didn't last longer, either way I'm happy to leave behind the cars of yester-year... even the 90's a bit sketch (though WAYYYY better).

They were simpler and easier to repair, but they absolutely did not last longer.

Depends what era of cars we're talking. There's a ton of stuff from the 90s and 2000s like GM trucks, that I strongly suspect will be on the road longer and in greater numbers than stuff 10 years newer. The mid to late 90s and early 2000's seems to be the sweet spot where fuel injection and simple electronic ignition, and stuff using older designs (engine's, etc.) that had to be built heavier, combined with better metallurgy, better oils, better gas, and so on, meant that the vehicles, when taken care reasonably, would go well past a quarter million miles. There's a ton of stuff now, that given much weird crap is on there and how much stuff is done to squeeze every last MPG out (like a lot of GDI setups, auto start/stop, transmissions that pull into neutral automatically at a stop, etc.) that I really doubt will make it as far. Even as far as repairability, a 90's 4L60E or 4L80 can be repaired way, way more easier by way more people, in an economic fashion than a lot of later transmissions (that you may as well just throw away). I'm sure this holds across other brands too; Volvos come to mind, as the older rear wheel drive red block cars were certainly far better built, more reliability, and had an unbelievably better lifespan than the absolute garbage Volvo has put out after Ford bought them.

Re: Generation Junk

#196
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that a $250 toaster today is still not a "buy it for life" item, but it would certainly have a lot of bells and whistles and almost no user-serviceable parts. Not if you buy one that is $250 because it has bells and whistles . You can buy a $250 dollar toaster that is just a toaster and it will be of good quality. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/waring-wct708-4-slice-comme...

This is a good point: The problem isnt that long lasting, durable products no longer exist. It's that they're no longer marketed for home use. You can get stuff just as good as back in the '60s, for comparable after-inflation prices. But they don't sell them at Sears or HomeSense, they sell them at industrial or kitchen or office supply stores.

I think that is some of what people miss. Way back when a cheap toaster at Sears was still expensive. Now you have hyper cheap toasters for like $15 bucks now, which would have been a dollar or so back then, you just couldn't get a toaster that price back then. So the cheapest item has drug the average quality down to it.

Re: Generation Junk

#197

We have friends that just laid out $3000 for a new washer drier set and washer is already leaking from the front door. Pursuing warranty repair has been a major hassle. My wife and I use a washer and drier set from the late 90's that are nothing to look at but work really well. They appear to be designed with service in mind and changing components is usually extremely easy - something I have done infrequently. These…

There are brands built to super high standards, but no-one wants to pay for them or deal with their compromises.

We have been buying Miele appliances, and have nothing but excellent experiences. They aren't cheap, but the general opinion I've seen online is that they are one of the few brands that build quality modern appliances. My experiences would tend to back that up.

Specific to the Miele washer and dryer, we hang dry most things and live in a very dry area, so having a heat pump dryer that doesn't get things crisp and dry is perfectly fine with us. We hardly use the dryer at all actually; clothes last longer if you don't use the dryer and we do spend the money on quality clothes (also hard to find and expensive).

Re: Generation Junk

#198

I wonder: is this person incredibly bad at making purchases? I mean… just incredibly bad? Or do they not do maintenance? The LG washer and Dryer I bought 20 yrs ago still works a champ. Come to think of it, the only appliance I’ve had issue with in the last 20 years is my coffee grinder, which after about 10 years of heavy use I sent to Baratazza and paid for it repaired. So I’m just not seeing this, even a little bi…

Hmm… thinking more about this, and seeing others comments, maybe… I’m unusually good at buying things?

That’s an unexpected thought, but it did make me realize that I research every major purchase on some combination of Consumer Reports / Wirecutter / focused review sites, and maybe that’s unusual?

Do most people not do that?

Re: Generation Junk

#199
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have friends that just laid out $3000 for a new washer drier set and washer is already leaking from the front door. What brand?

Not Op, but if I had to guess Samsung. I won't buy their appliances.

+1 for Samsung laundry machines being unreliable. I was in an apartment for 3 years and went thru 2 washing machines due to a “unrepairable” circuit fault on the first one, and a drum leaking perpetually on the second one.

The model of the washing machine was on the lease, was one of the expensive ones, I felt bad that they were buying #3 my last year there. They’re maybe only slightly above landfill in terms of entropic stability.

Edit: to be fair I bet they were warrantied, but still

Re: Generation Junk

#200
post #49

Ok no. First of all: survivorship bias. All of the old appliances that still work are only the ones which still work. This goes for the author's juicer. Second: things which have investment attention now are excellent quality and things which are waning towards the end of their lifecycle are having the last few corners cut before the Private Equity firm that now owns them throws in the towel, throughly wrung dry. Aut…

Your second point is great. But your first:

It's not (or at least, mostly not) survivorship bias. We aren't only talking about "Walk around a thrift store or grandma's house and grab a handful of appliances" because yup, they'll all still be working. But we can also ask our parents (or if we're over 30 ask ourselves) how many washers or dryers or mixers or blenders or televisions or whatever were required to be replaced after 6-48 months due to them spontaneously dying irreparably. Many such things did end up in the landfill then -- but mainly because people were eager to trade up to new shiny ones with better performance or features because consumer goods were improving every year back then.

(Compared to now when the main "advancements" happening to most household goods, if any, is the replacement of buttons with touchscreens and unreplaceable circuit boards, adding a wi-fi module and companion "App," and addition of subscription services.)

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