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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#191

Post by notthemessiah »

ashirusnw wrote: post #129
throwboatyface wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All reports are that Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence services knew this attack was coming. They've been promoting Hamas over more moderate elements in Gaza. The goal was to provoke an attack which would "justify" a counter-attack to completely level Gaza and kill or force out all the remaining civilians.

[flagged]

Israel's early support of Hamas is no secret, they saw Hamas as a religious Islamist counterweight to the secular leftist PLO and explicitly funded them to divide Palestinian opinion. [1] Also no longer a secret is the fact that Netanyahu explicitly allowed other Arab governments to smuggle money to Hamas. [2] And the intelligence failures leave a lot of questions open, especially given the advanced state of the Israeli intelligence apparatus (Gazan are forced to be limited to 2G so they can be spied on easily). [3]

The only weak conspiracy theory here is that Israel explicitly let the attack happen, rather than the reality that they took unnecessary risks to achieve fascistic political aims that opened the possibility of retaliation.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c...

[2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

[3] https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-surve...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#192

Post by dang »

stoorafa wrote: post #158
dang wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with several Israeli HNers who are in much the same position as you describe, and I admire their, and your, capacity to stay open despite being under orders of magnitude more pressure than most of us here. This is the spirit I'm asking for commenters to find in themselves before posting. (Edit: Lest this seem like an expression of bias: I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflic…

You’ve been in touch with Palestinians use HN? Not to seem one-sided, I didn’t realize Gazans had sufficient internet access, let alone food or water, to browse HN.

When I said "HNers on the other side of the conflict" I had in mind users who aren't necessarily Palestinians but have strong identification with their plight. However, it's worth saying that HN has some valued members in Gaza (as well as in the West Bank, of course, and Palestinians in other places). Here's one memorable example:

https://news.ycombinator.com/posts?id=daliaawad, My experience as a Gazan girl getting into Silicon Valley companies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26251143 - Feb 2021 (460 comments).

Someone who knows Dalia has been in touch with us, but at least at that time, they unfortunately had lost contact with her and don't know if she's still alive.

Also this YC startup:

Launch HN: Manara (YC W21) – Connect Middle East engineers with global companies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849054 - Jan 2021 (104 comments)

---

Some other threads over the years (I just looked up Gaza, of course there are also many Palestinians on HN from the West Bank and other places):

Lifehacker: Tarek Loubani on 3D-Printing in Gaza - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20623545 - Aug 2019 (68 comments)

Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18128432 - Oct 2018 (88 comments)

Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13374027 - Jan 2017 (137 comments)

How to Get More Women in Tech: Lessons from a Hackathon in Gaza - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13240777 - Dec 2016 (12 comments)

Mentoring in Gaza's first hackathon - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11858963 - June 2016 (152 comments)

Mentor startups in Gaza - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267716 - March 2015 (63 comments)

Wireless in Gaza: the young entrepreneurs beating the blockades - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8715085 - Dec 2014 (54 comments)

What It's Like to Build a Startup in Gaza - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8404414 - Oct 2014 (80 comments)

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#193

Post by hef19898 »

lolinder wrote: post #177
hef19898 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That explains what happened in 50s and 60s. Leveling Gaza in 2023 doesn't fall in that category, Hamas never had the power to do anything about Israel's existence as a state.

From the perspective of Israel's defense forces, Hamas doesn't have that power because Israel responds the way it does. I'd imagine that for many in Israel the lesson of the 60s is that if given an opening all of their neighbors will attack, so Israel cannot ever be seen as responding lukewarmly to an attack, even one by a party that couldn't destroy them singlehandedly. (I'm not arguing that this position is correct…

That's the problem, isn't it? If you put yourself in the shoes of either side, you can see how they have very good reason to do what they do (except Israelian settlement policies, those basically amount to borderline ethnic cleansing, and force the IDF to move in after the fact, but that's a different beast).

And since both sides are "right", there is no way this can end without outside intervention. An intervention that won't come, becaues nobody who could intervene is neutral enough, nor willing to be drawn into this.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#194

Post by adhamsalama »

srackey wrote: post #51
itsoktocry wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why is Israel’s reaction worse? They seem to be reacting to an unprovoked attack by an openly genocidal neighbor with a pretty big-standard conventional war to eliminate the problem regime. I’m not saying that Israel couldn’t be more mindful of optics or civilian casualties, but how is this war not justified?

Unprovoked? Israel has been massacring innocent civilians for over 75 years.

Israel was built just like the US, by massacring native people and stealing their land, which is still happening to this very day, including in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't exist.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#195

Post by lossolo »

lornemalvo wrote: post #147
lossolo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been firing rockets for decades. They killed 28 people over 20 years with 20k+ rockets[1]. Israel killed 17 000 people in two months. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...

You are reading very selectively (and I think fir a reason): > From 2004 to 2014, these attacks have killed 27 Israeli civilians, 5 foreign nationals, 5 IDF soldiers, and at least 11 Palestinians[11] and injured more than 1900 people.[12] Their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace. Please at least try to stay true to the facts, even i…

> You are reading very selectively (and I think fir a reason):

I've wrote what is in Overview section in the article. Which is "The rockets have killed 28 people and injured hundreds more."

> Please at least try to stay true to the facts, even if you are not willing to steelman the other's arguments.

Please don't imply intentions that were not mine. When I skimmed the article, I literally didn't see the information you mentioned. What would even be the point of that "selective reading"? Are we discussing a difference of 10-20 people against a figure of 17,000? This doesn't make sense.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#196

Post by kamikazeturtles »

cjdrake wrote: post #145

Slightly related, I wonder what opportunity cost the Israeli tech sector will incur from this conflict. Instead of developing their startups, lots of young people are busy with warfare at the moment.

I know the IDF uses Gaza as a testing ground for battle testing new weapons, so it goes both ways.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#197

Post by stoorafa »

pgeorgi wrote: post #114
bluescrn wrote: post #73

Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.

Egypt prefers dead Palestinians within Gaza over Palestinians living elsewhere and Israel, maybe, controlling the Gaza strip. Al-Sisi, as reported in https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/12/Ga... : > But the case of Gazans “is different”, he said, because their displacement would mean “the elimination of the (Palestinian) cause.”

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#198

Post by bena »

blaufast wrote: post #47
skyyler wrote: post #11

The things I've read about happening in Gaza are horrific. I'm ashamed that my taxes are funding this. It doesn't feel like there's much that can be done to change that. AIPAC has a very serious influence on our government and I worry that its impact is just leading to more deaths and more suffering.

Same. Then reminds me that the creation of the United States was based on strategic, coordinated genocide and I feel even worse.

Not an inch of land on this planet isn't soaked with the blood of conquerors and the conquered alike.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#199

Post by baz00 »

jraby3 wrote: post #7

Just a reminder that Aljazeera is the state sponsored news of Qatar, a county that hosts Hamas leaders and is close allies with Iran. It’s not a valid news source.

Very much this.

What they write in English is completely different to their main audience and internal audience. There's enough information out there to back this up. Go and do some research with this in mind and formulate your own conclusions.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#200

Post by megaman821 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #152
megaman821 wrote: post #78

Taken in isolation there is nothing wrong with this type of reporting, the IDF should be held to high standards. In the context of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there is a tendency to hold Israel to a much higher standard and excuse the Palestine side as if they were naive children. I don't see how that could possibly set up any lasting peace. Israel will become more deaf to outsiders, and Palestinians will not be…

I think there is good reason to hold Israel to a higher standard. It is by many metrics one of the most sophisticated states in the whole world. It has one of the highest fractions of people with higher education, it is a highly innovative economy. It is the second largest country of origin for NASDAQ stocks - US being the first one - despite being small by numbers at around 10m people. Whereas the Palestinian territ…

If prisoner well-being was Qatar's concern, it would be best to bring accusations during diplomatic discussions. This is more like Russia Today calling out prisoner abuse in Guantanamo Bay. I don't think Israelis see Al Jazeera as a neutral player here, and are now less likely to demand better of the IDF.
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