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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#191

Post by NickC25 »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

It's intentional. The Israel lobby has worked tirelessly to conflate antisemitism with any critique of Israel whatsoever, no matter how legitimate.

It's sad, and in the long run completely self-defeating, but nobody seems to realize that. The more Israel and their lobby overreacts to honest, legitimate and peaceful critique of their actions, the more extreme that the responses will inevitably be....especially in times like these where Palestinians have legitimate reasons to be angry with Israel, and when Israel's citizenry has the right to be angry with their government.

Nobody is right, and everyone is wrong. Everyone has blood on their hands. Pretending otherwise is dumb. Likud and Hamas are responsible, not the innocent Israelis nor the innocent Palestinians.

Fuck Hamas, fuck Likud.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#192

Post by ajb »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

Actions of Western democracies are usually subject to greater scrutiny. Indeed, the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism allowed for this: it says that it is antisemitism to hold Israel to a higher standard than other democracies - not than other nations altogether.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#193

Post by thsksbd »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

"what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests?"

Good question. 75 years of history those other two conflicts lack

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#194

Post by Animats »

rcpt wrote: post #135
Animats wrote: post #57

"That’s where the efforts of J-Ventures’ hasbara WhatsApp group come in. The group, which also includes attorneys and individuals affiliated with the influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), has tirelessly worked to fire employees and punish activists for expressing pro-Palestinian views." Is that even legal under US law? Apparently it is in some states. Federal law does not, apparently, prohibit…

There have been many arguments that AIPAC should register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act but my understanding is that in it's current form AIPAC doesn't qualify. I see this as a reason to strengthen the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

That issue came up regarding China's Confucius Institutes.[1] There's been something of a crackdown on those.

Politico has some coverage of the current Israel-related lobbying push.[2] There are a lot of players. "An unsanctioned coterie of pro-Israel quasi-lobbyists has descended on D.C." Some have formally registered as agents of Israel. Some haven't.

The big issue here is when activities go beyond lobbying. Anyone can lobby Congress; that's a constitutional right in the US. Getting people fired on behalf of a foreign power, though, is a legally questionable activity.

[1] https://thediplomat.com/2023/11/the-rise-and-fall-of-confuci...

[2] https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/22/pro-israel-lobbying...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#195

Post by Boogie_Man »

ristlane wrote: post #131
Boogie_Man wrote: post #38

This article, more than making me feel one way or another about the particular issue at hand (Isreal Hamas) makes me speculate what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. I'm reminded of the "Come out - we have you surrounded" meme where the mentally insane man is hiding behind a desk with a shotgun screaming "Get out of my head" or "I h…

[flagged]

I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to imply. As far as I can tell it's a very indirect attempt to imply that people "having a nerve struck" over "Jews coordinating", are bad in a nonspecific way. Can you state more clearly what you mean so I can consider it?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#197

Post by dragonwriter »

flyinglizard wrote: post #100
Animats wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AIPAC is the American-Israel Political Action Committee. "The largest pro-Israel PAC in America", their web site says. They are, quite openly, a lobby for Israel's interests in the US.

[flagged]

No, there's a difference between treating someone as a foreign agent because they actually are working as a foreign agent and treating someone as such because of their ancestry.

Its kind of weird to have to point that out.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#198

Post by matrix87 »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #177
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

Israel and pro-Israel commentators have spent a lot of time and effort trying to ingrain the idea that Israel == Jews. Of course, not all Jews are Israeli, and not all Israelis are Jews. And there are many Jewish Israelis who are critical of the actions of the Israeli government. Of course, a lot of criticism of Israel is rooted in antisemitism. But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate cr…

> But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate criticism

Who is saying this? All I've heard are people on one side insisting that people are saying this, sounds like a straw man

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#199

Post by sys32768 »

hypeit wrote: post #169
ristlane wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very pro-Palestinian. That’s yet another reason why I want Hamas gone. There’s no chance for social justice while terrorists are running the show.

[flagged]

By your logic, any peoples defeated in warfare and kicked off lands are justified to commit murder, rape, to pillage, and to kidnap occupiers.

In America that would include hundreds of Native American tribes today whose descendants could resist that way against Americans, yes?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#200

Post by krapp »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

It went viral on social media, the other conflicts didn't. That's really it. Many people's awareness of the world and the moral weight of what happens there comes directly from social media.

A lot of people were upset about China and the Uyghurs as well, for a while, but not until after it became a thing influencers talked about. And then they stopped caring after social media moved on. Even on HN, where anti-China sentiment is rampant, people no longer seem to mention it.

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