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Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

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Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#191

Post by pphysch »

capableweb wrote: post #74
pphysch wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with the lowercase? I think it's cute if someone is being deliberately low-effort, or trying to present that way, but IMO it's cringe to use it for consequential official statements like this.

> but IMO it's cringe to use it for consequential official statements like this This is funny to me, as Twitter is the platform for "deliberately low-effort" posts, but you see it as a platform for official statements. How times change...

Are these not official statements from gdb and sama? Where do they post the serious stuff?

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#192

Post by [deleted] »

theonemind wrote: post #159
wmf wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If OpenAI hadn't restructured they wouldn't have gotten any money from Microsoft and they would have either run out of money or the team would have left and started ClosedAI. There's no scenario where they developed GPT-3/4 while staying nonprofit.

I'm guessing that's the point. Ethics required getting out of the 501(c)(3), so the ClosedAI thing sounds more ethical. The 501(c)(3) should've collapsed or not exist.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#193

Post by thayne »

wmf wrote: post #149
IAmNotACellist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI shouldn't even be making a profit, as it's a 501(c)3 charity. The whole umbrella for-profit corp they formed when they became popular should be illegal, and is clearly immoral.

If OpenAI hadn't restructured they wouldn't have gotten any money from Microsoft and they would have either run out of money or the team would have left and started ClosedAI. There's no scenario where they developed GPT-3/4 while staying nonprofit.

I'm not really sure what is open about OpenAI.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#194

Post by ergocoder »

samspenc wrote: post #64
xxpor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They invested in the for-profit, not the non-profit. The non-profit controls the for-profit.

There are now 4 people left in the OpenAI non-profit board, after the ouster of both Sam and Greg today. 3 of the 4 remaining are virtual unknowns, and they control the fate of OpenAI, both the non-profit and the for-profit. Insane.

What do you mean by unknown?

One is the Joseph Gordon levitt's wife. You know. The actor from 500 days of summer.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#195

Post by upwardbound »

crop_rotation wrote: post #45
dougmwne wrote: post #24

I think this strengthens my theory that the AI safety true believers wrestled control away from the entrepreneurs. The Open AI board letter, representing just 4 people, screams butt hurt and personal disagreements. Microsoft, who just finished building OpenAI’s models into every core product, was blindsided. The chairman of the OpenAI board, Greg Brockman, another startup exec was pushed out at the same time. Eric Sc…

Not sure why you were downvoted. It is very hard to understand who really has power at OpenAI, and as of now half of the board consists of people whose biggest life accomplishment is somehow getting on the board.

In the AI safety community (which I work in), Helen Toner is well-known. She is famous (among our community) for being one of the main people working to halt and reverse any sort of "AI arms race" between the US & China. The recent successes in this regard at the UK AI Safety Summit and the Biden/Xi talks are due in large part to her advocacy.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#196

Post by [deleted] »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #162
thepasswordis wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anybody, like me, who was wondering who is actually on their board: >OpenAI is governed by the board of the OpenAI Nonprofit, comprised of OpenAI Global, LLC employees Greg Brockman (Chairman & President), Ilya Sutskever (Chief Scientist), and Sam Altman (CEO), and non-employees Adam D’Angelo, Tasha McCauley, Helen Toner. Sam is gone, Greg is gone, this leaves: Ilya, Adam, Tasha, and Helen. Adam: https://en.wikip…

Adam D'Angelo is well-known as the founder of Quora (and Quora's demise).

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#197

Post by hindsightbias »

speedylight wrote: post #3

> Microsoft, which has invested billions in OpenAI, learned that OpenAI was ousting CEO Sam Altman just a minute before the news was shared with the world, according to a person familiar with the situation. Well this probably disproves the theory that it was a power grab by Microsoft. It didn’t make too much sense anyway since they already have access to tech behind GPT and Microsoft doesn’t necessarily need the clou…

Microsofts AGI predicted this a year back, so they've just been sitting on it.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#198

Post by Intralexical »

moralestapia wrote: post #158
bastawhiz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally the exact corporate structure of Mozilla.

Lol, is this supposed to be an argument in favor of that structure? Have you read any news about Mozilla's budget in the past 10 years or so?

> Have you read any news about Mozilla's budget in the past 10 years or so?

Revenue/Expenses/Net Assets

2013: $314m/$295m/$255m

2018: $450m/$451m/$524m

2021: $600m/$340m/$1,054m

(Note: "2017 was an outlier, due in part to changes in the search revenue deal that was negotiated that year." 2019 was also much higher than both 2018 and 2020 for some reason.)

2018 to 2021 also saw their revenue from "Subscription and advertising revenue"— Representing their Pocket, New Tab, and VPN efforts to diversify away from dependence on Google— Increase by over 900%, from $5m to $57m.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/who-we-are/public-records/

Seriously, Mozilla gets shat on all the time, presumably because they're one of the few sources of hope and therefore disappointment in an overall increasingly problematic Internet landscape, and I wish they would be bigger too, but they're doing fine all things considered.

Certainly I wouldn't say their problems are due to this particular apsect of their legal structure.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#199

Post by _xivi »

zucker42 wrote: post #145
hm-nah wrote: post #100

I don’t believe it. I watched OpenAI DevDay live last week (wasn’t it?). I immediately noticed how Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, was treating (slighting so subtly in my mind) Satya Nadela, the CEO of Microsoft. The last this he said was: “I look forward to building AGI with you” or the like… I’m betting that he insulted Satya at that event or upshowed him, etc. and that’s why he’s kicking rocks…

The board who fired Sam Altman is the board of OpenAI Inc., the nonprofit. Microsoft has no ownership stake in OpenAI Inc.

> Microsoft has no ownership stake in OpenAI Inc.

Microsoft has an influence over fking governments. It doesn't need to have an official board seat. It doesn't even need to ask what they want directly. It's enough for people in power to be aligned with their interests.

I'm not saying that's the case here, just pointing that having no ownership or board member in an entity doesn't rule out having power or influence.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#200

Post by upwardbound »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #162
thepasswordis wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anybody, like me, who was wondering who is actually on their board: >OpenAI is governed by the board of the OpenAI Nonprofit, comprised of OpenAI Global, LLC employees Greg Brockman (Chairman & President), Ilya Sutskever (Chief Scientist), and Sam Altman (CEO), and non-employees Adam D’Angelo, Tasha McCauley, Helen Toner. Sam is gone, Greg is gone, this leaves: Ilya, Adam, Tasha, and Helen. Adam: https://en.wikip…

Adam D'Angelo is well-known as the founder of Quora (and Quora's demise).

Helen Toner is well-known as well, specifically to those of us who work in AI safety. She is known for being one of the most important people working to halt and reverse any sort of "AI arms race" between the US & China. The recent successes in this regard at the UK AI Safety Summit and the Biden/Xi talks are due in large part to her advocacy. She is well-connected with Pentagon leaders, who trust her input. She also is one of the hardest-working people among the West's analysts in her efforts to understand and connect with the Chinese side, as she uprooted her life to literally live in Beijing at one point in order to meet with people in the budding Chinese AI Safety community.

Here's an example of her work: AI safeguards: Views inside and outside China (Book chapter) https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97810032...

She's at roughly the same level of eminence as Dr. Eric Horvitz (Microsoft's Chief Scientific Officer), who has similar goals as her, and who is an advisor to Biden. Comparing the two, Horvitz is more well-connected but Toner is more prolific, and overall they have roughly equal impact.

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