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Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

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Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#191

Post by johnnyworker »

adventured wrote: post #83
next_xibalba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter to you? I am fascinated by people who have such strong opinions about Musk, particularly on the negative side. The vast majority have never met him and, if they were honest, have probably been positively impacted by him (or not at all). Personally, I hope it’s true. Starlink is good for the world.

[flagged]

> the extreme response from the political left

to wit:

> I don't trust a single thing he says at this point without evidence

That's a very unemotional, and very rational thing to say about anyone, really. Why should you "trust" a random stranger like that?

If you call that "extreme" and launch into a tirade of Musk being on "their" list that's really just something to do with you, and not an argument to blindly trust Musk, or anyone else for that matter.

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#192

Post by TaylorAlexander »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #188
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> regardless of the up front pain point of far leftie aversion to freedom of speech kneecapping legacy revenue streams Musk is not in favor of free speech, he is in favor of allowing speech he likes to get a free pass while limiting the speech of people and groups he disagrees with. The left does not like what he is doing because they disagree with which speech he is allowing and which speech he is blocking. What I h…

I don't think you are correct about free speech being a means to a different end rather than an end in itself for him. He has stated he is in favor of free speech and has converted the rules and enforcement to focus on things breaking the law, which is a reasonable thing to do if your position is supporting freedom of speech because the refining system for the law is based around constitutional ideas of free speech (…

It's not just permitting speech the left doesn't like. I don't care enough to follow this closely and have a bunch of sources at the ready, but it seems that left leaning accounts which do not violate the rules are being targeted by twitter in various ways. There was a pro-palestine account which people said they would follow and then go back and somehow see they were not following it. And some words can imply violence - for example doxxing is "just words" but presents real world risks to people, and there are other forms of harassment which are seemingly against twitter rules which is being permitted. Famously the libsoftiktok account posts a lot of harassment of trans people, and internal leakers at twitter show that this account has been flagged to prevent it from being banned even when it violates community standards.

So actual rule violating accounts are purportedly being protected, while left leaning accounts which do not violate rules are being manipulated behind the scenes, if the reports are to be believed.

Again I recognize that I have not provided sources and I don't expect you to just take me at my word, but I wanted to correct what you think I am saying. I am not just concerned with uncomfortable speech, but outright harassment and the apparent suppression of certain left leaning accounts. That is why I say it is about controlling the narrative.

EDIT: Did a couple of quick searches. Banning journalists for being critical of Musk/Twitter isn't very free speech oriented!

December 2022

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/journalists-who-wrote-ab...

April 2023

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-st...

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#194

Post by spikels »

dougmwne wrote: post #12

Who knows what this even means. Breakeven including launch costs? Breakeven on only satellite operation costs? Breakeven when you exclude all satellite and ground infrastructure costs? Breakeven when you exclude all costs except Elon’s ego stroking expenses?

Some background from Gwen Shotwell back in February[1]:

> While Musk said in October that Starlink was losing money, Shotwell offered a more upbeat assessment. “This year Starlink will make money,” she said, noting that the company’s Falcon launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft, and other unspecified work, already makes money.

> “We actually had a cashflow positive quarter last year, excluding launch. This year, they’re paying for their own launches, and they will still make money,” she said.

> She said cash flow from operations pays for development, supplemented as needed by outside investment. Tackling both Starlink and the Starship launch vehicle at the same time, she argued, drives that need for outside investment.

> “If we had done Starlink and then Starship, or Starship and then Starlink, we probably could have funded them through customer contracts and revenue from Falcon and Dragon. But you do both of them at the same time it’s a lot of money every year.”

Combining this with today’s statement I think we can answer your questions:

> Breakeven including launch costs?

Yes - cash flow breakeven for the Starlink business unit which includes it’s launch costs.

> Breakeven on only satellite operation costs? Breakeven when you exclude all satellite and ground infrastructure costs? Breakeven when you exclude all costs except Elon’s ego stroking expenses?

No to all these alternatives. But why the dumb ad hominem?

[1] https://spacenews.com/shotwell-ukraine-weaponized-starlink-i...

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#195

Post by MagicMoonlight »

drannex wrote: post #6

I don't trust a single thing he says at this point without evidence, I just can't possibly see it as breakeven without it, which we likely won't receive as they are a private corp.

If it’s privately owned then he has less reason to lie

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#196

Post by MagicMoonlight »

Difwif wrote: post #35

I know a lot of people with access to fiber in cities discount Starlink and I miss my 1Gbps fiber. Also the Elon hate train probably has something to do with it. Starlink is life changing for a lot of people. You would not believe how many different communities ISP market has been shaken up by Starlink. Many people went from high latency metered internet measured in kilobits to 100Mbps at 30ms. I've seen this both in…

If I didn’t live in a city I would absolutely get one

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#197

Post by Tepix »

capableweb wrote: post #157
Tepix wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 examples: He's accelerated the switch to electric cars. He's made transport to space a lot cheaper, saving a lot of taxpayer's money.

> He's accelerated the switch to electric cars. Which, in today's industry and world might have been too early as we still haven't figured out if mining all that lithium is better for the world or not, right now. > He's made transport to space a lot cheaper, saving a lot of taxpayer's money. Yeah, for ~4% of the world's taxpayers. We'll still see if SpaceX is a net-win for humanity, too early to tell.

Even ESA member countries are saving money these days.

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#198

Post by bbatchelder »

I personally think that Musk is kind of a dipshit when it comes to his political views, that he is a bit of a charlatan (FSD this year, I swear), that Tesla jumped the shark tank about 2-3 years ago, and I laugh every time I see more bad news about X/Twitter...

BUT I am really rooting for SpaceX and Starlink. Honestly I hope the shiny toy that is X/Twitter keeps his attention for a while and he leaves those orgs to run as they have been.

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#199

Post by inemesitaffia »

LargeTomato wrote: post #64

I read an analysis by Morgan Stanley that it costs $40B to launch the entire constellation. That doesn't include the cost of the satellite, just the launches. According to SpaceX their satellites last 5 years. That means Starlink must make, at minimum, $8B/year to maintain the constellation. `$8B/yr / ($200/mo * 12 mo) = 3.33 Million users` 3.3 million users paying $200/mo in order to break even. The starshield contr…

SpaceX has never raised or made up to 40 billion. It's not hard to estimate the cost of launch and figure out that headline number is wrong

Re: Starlink has achieved breakeven cash flow

#200

Post by inemesitaffia »

organsnyder wrote: post #182
coding123 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Starlink had not existed, there would have been no decision to make. Just because it is an option doesn't mean the country needs to use it, depend on it at all. If your success or failure in a war depends on one company doing something or not, you're definitely doing WAR wrong.

Yes, perhaps it was naïve for Ukraine to assume that Musk's offer of Starlink access would come with no strings attached. Though I can certainly understand if Ukraine assumed that even if Musk tried to do something, the US government wouldn't let that happen, so perhaps the blame is on the United States. That being said, Musk did interfere. Whether he should have been trusted not to isn't really the point—the fact th…

The interference was the supply of equipment. Something that if meant for military use should have come via the State Department or Pentagon.
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