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AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

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Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#191

Post by snapplebobapple »

shmerl wrote: post #184
yukkuri wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US legal system (and many others) are adversarial, people can still sue you on very flimsy grounds and you still have to respond or you lose by default. It may very well be that the troll doesn't have a solid case, but you don't hook any fish if you don't get your line in the water

Someone like MS should have more than enough resources to bust patent trolls in court instead of chickening out. Also, can't whole AOM pool resources to annihilate those trolls? They'll all benefit from it. So this doesn't make sense.

Thay doesnt work on patent trolls becausr all they do is sue people. They have no products of their own to build their own patent liability risk so they arent kept in line. The solution to patent trolls is pretty simple yet impossible. Make having a patent contingent on having a product in the market that uses the patent with a short grace period of a few years. If you have no product for sale you can point to after the grace period you lose the patent. Also make patent holder at least 50% liable for any licensor product abuse. Then they will be stopped from patent trolling by their own exposure, as it should be if you are giing to have a patent system like this.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#192

Post by shmerl »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #191
shmerl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone like MS should have more than enough resources to bust patent trolls in court instead of chickening out. Also, can't whole AOM pool resources to annihilate those trolls? They'll all benefit from it. So this doesn't make sense.

Thay doesnt work on patent trolls becausr all they do is sue people. They have no products of their own to build their own patent liability risk so they arent kept in line. The solution to patent trolls is pretty simple yet impossible. Make having a patent contingent on having a product in the market that uses the patent with a short grace period of a few years. If you have no product for sale you can point to after…

Trolls don't like fighting in courts, because most of their patents are utter junk. They rely on protection racket intimidation when courts are avoided and they are paid for that.

So while fighting them in court is costly since it requires research of prior art and doing all the necessary work to invalidate those junk patents, it's still often a proper tactic to destroy them.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#193

Post by alwillis »

baggy_trough wrote: post #58
arbitrarian wrote: post #4

According to the article, it's supported by every browser except Edge. It will be interesting to see who ultimately ends up making a better IE, Safari or Microsoft. So far, it seems Safari is winning, given the ever growing set of standards they don't support, but maybe this is Edge trying to catch up?

What are the "ever growing set of standards" that Safari doesn't support?

There was so much hoopla on HN about Chrome abandoning JPEG XL recently while Safari added support for it.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#194

Post by alwillis »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #95
windsurfer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEVC isn't widely supported by web browsers: https://caniuse.com/hevc AV1 is supported by almost all web browsers: https://caniuse.com/av1

Notable exceptions are Safari and Safari on iOS (unless you have an iPhone 15 Pro).

Or an M3 Mac.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#196

Post by ddalex »

jorvi wrote: post #173
ddalex wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop using Google software and services if they annoy you so much. Vote with your browsing habits.

Ah yes, let me switch to the YouTube competitor that every channel is multi-loading their content to.

Nobody forces you to watch video content. It's your choice.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#197

Post by repelsteeltje »

londons_explore wrote: post #50
pipo234 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Indeed. Compared to other standards in streaming media, I'd say that AOMedia has found adoption a lot quicker. h265 (HEVC) was all but DoA until years after it's introduction Apple finally decided to embrace it. It is still by no means ubiquitous, mostly due to patent licensing, which significantly drives up the price of hardware in single digit dollars price range. Anecdotally, consider that Apple's HTTP Live Str…

> even mp4 -> mp2 transmuxing was considered too resource intensive. Really? Muxing generally doesn't require one to decode the actual data - merely shuffle around blocks of data with memcpy() so should be really cheap.

memcpy is ±99%. The 1% involves bit shifting (nal unit reshuffling, avc3/avc1 fixups).

So indeed, repackaging mp4 mp2 containers is pretty trivial. Nevertheless, Apple initially choose mpeg2TS because it conveniently allowed them to shove the reassembled media segments straight into the dedicated AV chip.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#198

Post by repelsteeltje »

dylan604 wrote: post #90
pipo234 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Indeed. Compared to other standards in streaming media, I'd say that AOMedia has found adoption a lot quicker. h265 (HEVC) was all but DoA until years after it's introduction Apple finally decided to embrace it. It is still by no means ubiquitous, mostly due to patent licensing, which significantly drives up the price of hardware in single digit dollars price range. Anecdotally, consider that Apple's HTTP Live Str…

>Anecdotally, consider that Apple's HTTP Live Streaming protocol (till version 6) relied on MPEG2TS This sounds like you might be confusing that MPEG2TS might have something to do with the video encoding instead of it solely being the way the video/audio elementary streams are wrapped together into a single contained format. The transport stream was designed specifically for an unreliable streaming type of delivery v…

> There is nothing wrong with using a TS stream for HLS that makes it inferior.

Not wrong, but a bit surprising. As you mention, transport streams are designed to operate over unreliable connections (like satellite or terrestrial transmission). Reliability is not an issue with with HTTP or TCP.

Other than being archaic, some disadvantages are that TS has somewhat more overhead than (f)MP4 and poor ergonomics for random access / on the fly repackaging caused by continuity counter, padding, PAT/PMT resubmission timing, PCR clock.

If it were up to me to design a streaming protocol like DASH, HLS, Flash, or SmoothStreaming I'd instantly choose mp4 (or plain elementary streams). I wouldn't even consider TS or PS unless some spec forced me to.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#199

Post by pipo234 »

7speter wrote: post #134
pipo234 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Indeed. Compared to other standards in streaming media, I'd say that AOMedia has found adoption a lot quicker. h265 (HEVC) was all but DoA until years after it's introduction Apple finally decided to embrace it. It is still by no means ubiquitous, mostly due to patent licensing, which significantly drives up the price of hardware in single digit dollars price range. Anecdotally, consider that Apple's HTTP Live Str…

Was it all but dead because people thought h264 was good enough, until 2.5 and 4k became more prominent in media consumption? It seems really useful if youre doing encoding at resolutions than 1080p, and it makes me less regretful that I have a bunch of recent hardware that didn’t get av1 hardware support :)

> Was it all but dead because people thought h264 was good enough, until 2.5 and 4k became more prominent in media consumption?

(Lack of) a compelling use case certainly played a role. Sure, reducing bandwidth is in itself a noble (and potentially profitable) goal but why fix it if it ain't broken? Ie.: the h264 infrastructure for HD was already there, working fine.

Another factor was that HEVC was full of new patents and the patent pool licensing costs hadn't yet settled.

Re: AV1 video codec gains broader hardware support

#200

Post by porridgeraisin »

ddalex wrote: post #196
jorvi wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, let me switch to the YouTube competitor that every channel is multi-loading their content to.

Nobody forces you to watch video content. It's your choice.

This is a daft argument and you know it.
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