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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#191

Post by sickcodebruh »

gruez wrote: post #185
bananaquant wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an HR would say, those people are "a bad cultural fit", which legitimately raises the probability of them being laid off to 100%. Simple.

There's probably a performance component as well. If you're high performing, can pick whatever job they want, and therefore get paid well above your peers, why would want to join a union?

This was so much more than a job to many of them, just like Bandcamp is more than an e-commerce platform. Bandcamp employed a lot of people who had been there for 5+ years and contributed heavily to its role as cornerstone and defender of independent music. To them, it was as much an extension of their identities as it was a job, and they saw protecting Bandcamp as being equal to protecting independent music. The union came about after they were sold to Epic in an effort to protect not only themselves but also the company and everything it did and represented. Clearly, they were right to be distrustful.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#192

Post by varispeed »

youngtaff wrote: post #129
varispeed wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to updated IR35 employers can bypass unions altogether. As IT deemed employees don't get any employment rights.

Umbrella companies are going to be in for a rude awakening sooner or later As someone who's outside IR35 I can't see the point in being inside rather than just taking a full time role with a company, sure there's some flexibility but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in my view

There's a common misunderstanding regarding umbrella companies and their relation to IR35 legislation. Contrary to some beliefs, umbrella companies aren't subject to IR35. This regulation is designed for individuals who offer their services through an intermediary which they either manage or hold a financial stake in. However, when you're employed through an umbrella company or a large consultancy, you're considered an employee of that entity, thus IR35 doesn't apply in this context. Therefore, there's no impending "rude awakening" for umbrella companies concerning IR35.

The challenge in regulating umbrella companies lies in the similarity of their business structures to those of large consultancies. They operate nearly identically, and differentiating between the two would require an additional, layer of regulation that could potentially face legal objections.

IR35 itself is more about preventing professionals from departing large consultancies, establishing direct client engagements, and consequently, fostering competition. Ultimately, many small enterprises begin with the business owners personally providing services until they expand sufficiently to employ additional staff. However, IR35 essentially nips that in the bud and ensures the talent stays in the employment pool, corporations can exploit.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#193

Post by gruez »

willcipriano wrote: post #175
vanderZwan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. This does not seem compatible with all the stories I've heard about underpaid teachers having to buy material for their students out of their own pocket. I'm sure it somehow ends up both being true in a twisted way, but it still sounds strange.

"Buying things out of pocket" was such a smart tactic from the union. Have each teacher buy a box of pencils for a few dollars and complain loudly so people think you are spending much more.

If that's the case why don't we see school boards have expense policies to shut them up?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#194

Post by filoleg »

paulcole wrote: post #188
gruez wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably a performance component as well. If you're high performing, can pick whatever job they want, and therefore get paid well above your peers, why would want to join a union?

Because one day you won’t be high performing and you’d like to have some protection for your job? Among many other reasons…

Is this a direct admission that unions are for protecting low-performers?

Because if yes, that’s not a good look for them at all and is kind of a perfect ammo for the anti-union side.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#195

Post by slikrick »

creshal wrote: post #158
qwery wrote: post #153

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. B…

> I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. That's just the bare minimum they have to do to not get sued, is that really thankworthy?

apparently the bar for companies is that low that HN is bootlicking the bare minimum. it's honestly hilarious.

this is extremely shady, and I don't know why people are trusting the source directly lol. they wouldn't say they did anything untoward, ever

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#196

Post by DanielHB »

nabla9 wrote: post #97
ivolimmen wrote: post #49

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

Just a factual example, in Sweden this year the union agreed wage increase for IT workers was 3.5% against an almost 10% inflation year-on-year and almost everyone is unionised. In an unionised sector in the US this would have been cause for immediate strikes.

In Sweden (and many other european countries) unions work with government and companies to make the business succeed and that success be spread to the employees, this means the bad times are also amortised by the workers as well.

It is not perfect but it is not a zero-sum game which keeps both sides more aligned. I wish I could have had a 10% raise to match inflation, but I have been getting ~1% raises above inflation for the past several years so it kinda makes up for it.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#197

Post by slikrick »

filoleg wrote: post #194
paulcole wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because one day you won’t be high performing and you’d like to have some protection for your job? Among many other reasons…

Is this a direct admission that unions are for protecting low-performers? Because if yes, that’s not a good look for them at all and is kind of a perfect ammo for the anti-union side.

it's directly saying that unions protect against anti-worker bullshit corporate speak.

which you seem to eat up and want to spit right back at people

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#198

Post by gruez »

axus wrote: post #181
siva7 wrote: post #18

Seems more like the layoffs were about laying off the union members. Some CEOs perceive unions as cancer that has to be stopped from metastasis. In countries with stronger union protection laws this move would have been illegal

I wonder if a compromise between "French-style" and "American-style" would be the government taking over the layoff business. Need to cut headcount? Send the Department of Labor your payroll, and they'll tell you who to lay-off.

I can't wait for the next layoff where my newly hired star performers get laid off because some bureaucrat thought tenure was more important than job performance or whether they were working on an important project or not.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#199

Post by datenwolf »

Does anyone know the size of Bandcamp's catalogue. I'm just wondering about hardware costs (storage) would be for prospective competitors who intend to swoop up Bandcamp's customers (artists and listeners). Audio is a lot less demanding than video, and since there's no DRM it's basically just static files with some access control.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#200

Post by jzb »

qwery wrote: post #153

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. B…

What, exactly, is to be thankful for? I'd have been thankful if Songtradr had carried over Bandcamp entirely, all employees, and proceeded from there.

There's nothing here to be thankful for, not a damn thing.

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