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The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

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Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#191

Post by dpeckett »

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

I'm increasingly getting worried about the stability of the current situation. We have a tremendous collapse of the construction industry (housing starts at a 50 year low, at least here in germany) and many commentators are predicting ever increasing rents.

This in the face of a fertility collapse across the developed world and a rapidly aging population. Most of the youth is waking up to the idea their pensions will be worthless when it comes retirement age. A lot of social services are feeling the strain (and exploding costs).

It really is the biggest issue of our generation.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#192

Post by escapedmoose »

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird conclusion to draw.

Zoning law in some places makes building new homes very difficult, so I would like to see less/different local regulation there. But other than zoning it seems it would help more if the government would step in to disallow large leasing companies buying up giant swathes of the housing stock just to flip into rentals. Maybe incentivize those companies to increase their ratio of new construction, to help solve this supply issue.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#193

Post by onetimeuse92304 »

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

> Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda.

It all comes down to one simple problem. Housing is both investment AND acquiring housing is basic survival necessity.

As long as both are true, the problem will persist.

Imagine a world where rich individuals and investment bankers would decide they have too much cash and want to use it to buy out all food. They calculated this will drive food prices up and they could sell it with a profit. They bought it all and now they sit on piles of food that are increasing in price while majority of the population is slowly dying of starvation.

What's more, at some point some will start selling it and the food prices will suddenly go down and they will ask the government to somehow make sure the prices stay high. They already got used to the fact the prices of food will be exorbitant. Maybe they bought it when it was already high? Or maybe they took a loan to buy that mountain of food but the loan is contingent on the price of the food being high.

All the while people keep starving.

Ridiculous, and yet this is what is happening to housing.

There are as far as I know only two basic angles to solve this problem:

1) Make so that houses are no longer investments or at least not the best investment out there.

2) Make so that acquiring housing is no longer necessary for survival.

The problem is as you said -- majority of the population who have invested in a property and now think it is more important for them personally to benefit from increasing prices than solve one of the more important problems for the society.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#194

Post by jodrellblank »

chii wrote: post #93
somewhereoutth wrote: post #52

It never ceases to astonish me how the richest country on the planet is still in 'survival mode' where everyone has to justify their claim to, well, anything at all. In Europe (even as it was largely laid waste after WW2), it is understood that we are all together, and simply by existing we have a right to at least a basic level of living. Perhaps part of that is that because communism was so close, for so long, it w…

> where everyone has to justify their claim but why shouldn't that be the case? There's no natural rights to anything, and it's the law of the jungle. There's a veneer of civility so as not to cause anarchy with people killing each other for some food. But just because someone exists, doesn't give them any privileges to own anything, except for what they worked for (or get given from parents).

> "but why shouldn't that be the case? [...] so as not to cause anarchy with people killing each other for some food."

I feel like you answered your own question there. It shouldn't be the case because with anarchy everyone loses. You give your sibling some of your birthday cake because if you don't and they throw the cake on the floor in anger, you don't get any of your cake either, and if you do then later on at their birthday they give you their cake. In one case you both lose, in the other case you both gain.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#195

Post by escapedmoose »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #35
jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

The issue is not supply and demand for houses - there are plenty enough to go around (though often in the wrong place). The issue is that a sizeable underclass is being created that have no wealth, not least because what wealth they did have has been funnelled to the very wealthy. For example, medical bills. For example student loans. For example zero interest rates with zero wage inflation meaning accommodation cost…

I won’t argue with you on the developing underclass, but the numbers have shown for a while now that there is a very real housing shortage. Part of the problem here is that we’re not building to keep pace with the population.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#196

Post by hotpotamus »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #40

There are five workers supporting every retiree, and this is still happening. If you are approaching 40, there will be about two workers supporting you when you retire. I’m thinking this is the start of something much bigger.

Aren't we supposed to be incredibly productive compared to a century ago? "We" (not me) certainly have more megayachts and private jets traversing the Earth than we did. You'd think we could afford some housing to go around, but I'm far from naive enough to believe that we'll solve this or any problem facing us at this point.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#197

Post by tomatotomato37 »

snowpid wrote: post #85
shrimpx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Europe? Plenty of destitution, poverty, far-right inclinations, ultra-nationalism and anti-migrant racism in Europe. (Often against migrants from other countries in Europe.)

ar-right inclinations, ultra-nationalism is far more spreaded in US than just say Germany.

You know there is much more Europe to the east & south of Germany, yes? It's not just the convenient western countries of Germany, France, the Scandinavian countries, and maybe UK; it's also Italy, Spain, Poland, Hungary, Greece, Serbia, Belarus, Ukraine, and let's not forget, Russia.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#198

Post by robertlagrant »

esarbe wrote: post #152
robertlagrant wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's assuming that people that "have a load of money" necessarily created that value Other than generationally wealthy families (very few) or thieves or people making laws that then make them rich in the stock market, there are plenty of wealthy people who got wealthy because people chose to give them money in exchange for something worth that money to them.

That's the idea, the "American Dream" - you roll up your sleeves, spit in your hands and go to work - get busy and rich. Alas, that's not been the case for a long time. Please look at the data. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/thirteen-economic-facts-a...

Can you point at which of these shows that wealthy people weren't paid for value created please?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#200

Post by landoftheice »

Ensorceled wrote: post #62
mensetmanusman wrote: post #40

There are five workers supporting every retiree, and this is still happening. If you are approaching 40, there will be about two workers supporting you when you retire. I’m thinking this is the start of something much bigger.

Yes, this is why the "it's immigration" comments are incredibly naive. Immigration is trying to prop up this system.

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