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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#191

Post by hadlock »

Aeolun wrote: post #108
Kirby64 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that the synthetic stone is not the cause, but highlighting the problem: poor enforcement of safety standards and inadequate PPE provided to workers. Just because there's more silica doesn't mean that it's suddenly unsafe whereas cutting granite is safe. Even drywall or cutting concrete you're supposed to wear PPE.

> Even drywall or cutting concrete you're supposed to wear PPE Yeah, but it doesn’t kill you within a few years if you don’t, right?

It never leaves your lungs though. In the last 20 years we went from "dust masks are for wimps" to "wow not wearing PPE is terrible". One small silver lining of covid is that even relatively oblivious home owners even wear PPE for small projects now. Smoking OR inhaling large amounts of dust might not kill you, but both are bound to make you miserable later in life. There is already a steep drop off in lung cancer deaths, peaking in the early 1990s. Right now we're down to about 1930s level despite having nearly triple the population.

You can buy a cheap yet very comfortable 5000 or 7000 series respirator from 3M for about $20 and the "pink pancake" P100 filters are another $12. If you're a hobbyist those ought to last you a year, maybe even 5 depending on what you're cutting. I do metalwork as a hobby and I can definitely feel it in my lungs (and taste it) the next day if the garage door is shut and I forgot to wear the respirator.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#192

Post by bastawhiz »

mhb wrote: post #144
bastawhiz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it is incompetent with the thing you gave it to do, don't give it more stuff to do. When my code doesn't work, I don't sunset the code, I fix it. Why would the best course of action be to stop trying instead of fixing the root of the problem?

When your Maytag dishwasher breaks after a month, do you think the best thing to do is to buy a Maytag washing machine?

I don't say "I'm not using a dishwasher anymore" I figure out how to get the dishwasher that's in my kitchen fixed.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#193

Post by zopa »

bagels wrote: post #121
icegreentea2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was interested, but also didn't want to scrub through a podcast. Summary: Cass Sunstein was the administer of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. The OIRA is given the remit to review drafted rules (ie regulations) that various federal agencies want to enact. The OIRA is supposed to perform an external cost-benefit analysis of the proposed regulations. OIRA is suppose to turn around ruling…

Thank you for collecting this. A couple years to draft & study some proposed regulation doesn't seem that heinous to me. It would make sense to not hastily publish a regulation that will last decades without really considering it and its effects well. They can be a source of lawsuits, and I would assume, you want it to be effective which can take some study.

These are regulations that have already been studied extensively at the agency level. OIRA’s cost-benefit analysis is a second layer of review on top of that.

It’d be interesting to see a cost-benefit analysis of OIRA’s cost-benefit analysis. All the delays aren’t free.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#194

Post by bafe »

mhb wrote: post #159
bagels wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was more specific about the materials.

The materials are a second order effect. Undoubtedly breathing granite, soapstone or whatever dust isn't good for you either. Maybe it just takes longer to kill you.

Isn't soapstone closely related to asbestos? I'd expect it to produce the same type of powder that makes asbestos so dangerous (and on top of silicosis it can give you mesothelioma)

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#195

Post by pydry »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #118
jmvoodoo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't talking about cake though. We are talking about inexpensive highly processed foods made predominantly from ingredients that are subsidized specifically because of their caloric density. I.e. corn. High caloric density is what you want if you need to be able to feed your country in war, so we subsidize these foods. No one wants to eat just plain corn though, so companies process it into other foods that are…

> Knowing all of this, it makes perfect sense to tax the living crap out of highly processed foods that are made from subsidized ingredients. The consequence of this would be that the subsidized food gets exported to a country that doesn't tax it, at which point you're subsidizing some other country's food. The US is also a large net exporter of food, implying there is more than enough domestic production for wartime…

>The consequence of this would be that the subsidized food gets exported to a country that doesn't tax it, at which point you're subsidizing some other country's food.

If theyre smart they won't take this shit either.

Nice of you to let Americans sacrifice their health on $othercountry's behalf though.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#196

Post by bafe »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #151
ok123456 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also blame the people who want gaudy countertops for their McMansions, or for their 'flip.'

What material provides a better value than quartz for countertops? Objectively, it has a very high utility per dollar. Heat resistant, water resistant, knife resistant, stain resistant, etc.

If function is your primary concern, then the only material to choose is the one professional kitchens use: stainless steel. It won't be as good looking depending on your tastes, but it will beat most stones on other properties

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#197

Post by creato »

readyplayernull wrote: post #187
trobertson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately it was a granite countertop and not quartz. Granites are primarily composed of feldspar and quartz, which are both primarily composed of silica. Silica is the thing that causes silicosis, and when that granite was cut it was clouds of silica dust that covered your home. You were no more safe in that granite dust than you would have been in quartz dust.

Silica particles won't disolve in water, it's like breathing broken glass, and that's the main problem not limited to silica, but breathing ANY particle that harms your organs.

Lots of things don’t dissolve in water but are still effectively contained by water. That said, I wonder what happens to the water being used for this purpose. If it isn’t treated/disposed of somehow, I could see it evaporating and allowing the dust to become airborne again. If this is in a permanent shop environment, it might explain the apparent lack of effectiveness of this solution.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#198

Post by rainbowzootsuit »

blincoln wrote: post #73
eropple wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a wood shop, I wear a respirator constantly unless I've got the doors open and the fans on and I'm not going to be doing more than a one-off cut that afternoon. A properly fitted 3M 6800-series full-face respirator is pretty comfortable even for long periods and while wearing glasses. A 6200-series half-mask is even more comfortable, though a little awkward with glasses. The only problem is that a 6800-series…

I've got a 3M full-face respirator as well, and I agree. I've worn it with P100 filters for 8+ hours (minus breaks to drink water) doing hard work in uncomfortable conditions many times, and never found the respirator to be a burden. They're a little pricey up front, but I figured it was cheap overall compared to the long-term costs of using something less effective. Having eye protection integrated as well is ideal,…

I got one of their FF400 face shield respirators to do lead paint removal and spent dozens of hours in unconditioned spaces with a tyvek suit. They are extremely well designed and never fog because the inhaled air passes first through the face mask area and then through one-way valves into the mouth/nose section and is exhausted downward at the front of the mouth/nose area.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#199

Post by ChumpGPT »

Aeolun wrote: post #105
ChumpGPT wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Is there any evidence of this? That the Canadian Gov cares more about workers than the US Gov? >Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work for…

I don’t think cutting in the open air and cutting in tiny sweatshops are at all comparable.

Then you have never seen someone cut stone in open air. Because it creates such a cloud of stone dust you could hide a house in it.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#200

Post by lotsofpulp »

bafe wrote: post #196
lotsofpulp wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What material provides a better value than quartz for countertops? Objectively, it has a very high utility per dollar. Heat resistant, water resistant, knife resistant, stain resistant, etc.

If function is your primary concern, then the only material to choose is the one professional kitchens use: stainless steel. It won't be as good looking depending on your tastes, but it will beat most stones on other properties

What is the cost though? Is rust a concern? And of course, looks are a concern, but I imagine quartz is relatively cheap because many, many people can afford it.
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