Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why scalpers can get tickets

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 487 posts

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#191

Post by 1letterunixname »

The sky is blue and Ticketmaster is a monopoly and crime syndicate.

There are 2 overall approaches: law enforcement by making resale illegal or doubling-down on capitalism by auction sales rather than enabling arbitrage.

Either way, ticket marketplace(s) must do more to assure limits of tickets and verifying the uniqueness of individuals through technological and physical delivery controls. Since this is a widespread consumer rights issue, it could be grounds for hauling TM before a Senate subcommittee inquiry.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#192

Post by mattmaroon »

username332211 wrote: post #36
josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

For the same reason why artists use Ticketmaster. Do you think they are stupid and just hand over ticket distribution to a company that routinely charges 30$ fees to a 40$ ticket? No, artists and producers aren't stupid, they get the most of the money from the Ticketmaster "fees". But when a fan sees a 70$ ticket, they'd may decide Bruce Springsteen (net worth 650$ million) isn't a man of the people. When they see a…

This is not how concerts work, and artists and producers don't get any money from Ticketmaster fees. In most cases, a promoter pays an artist a flat fee to perform. The promoter then markets the show and gets the ticket sales, and Ticketmaster gets Ticketmaster fees.

Unfortunately Ticketmaster is owned by LiveNation, and they are far and away the biggest promoter. They sign exclusive rights with large venues. My local 25,000 seat amphitheater has a deal with LiveNation. I can only get tickets to shows there through Ticketmaster.

Artists hate Ticketmaster too (some have sued them) but if you want to do an arena tour, good luck avoiding them. Artists use them because they don't have a choice. The number of large venues that don't use TM is growing, my local basketball arena uses SeatGeek.

The one concession TM makes is to their fan clubs. Artists get to sell tickets directly to a limited number of fans. If you love an artist, joining their fan club will probably save you the annual fee back in one show.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#193

Post by mattmaroon »

readams wrote: post #96
username332211 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason why artists use Ticketmaster. Do you think they are stupid and just hand over ticket distribution to a company that routinely charges 30$ fees to a 40$ ticket? No, artists and producers aren't stupid, they get the most of the money from the Ticketmaster "fees". But when a fan sees a 70$ ticket, they'd may decide Bruce Springsteen (net worth 650$ million) isn't a man of the people. When they see a…

Ticketmaster is mostly in the business of being the company that everyone hates so the artists can pretend to be helpless and of the people.

No. LiveNation is mostly in the business of signing deals with large venues to be the exclusive promoter of shows, and Ticketmaster thus is their exclusive ticket seller. Ticketmaster also sign deals with other promoters to be their exclusive ticket outlet, so even in instances where LiveNation isn't the promoter, you may have to deal with TM.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#194

Post by charcircuit »

nerdjon wrote: post #182
josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

Then the view of greed falls on the organization and the artists instead of on scalpers. It also is up in the air of the market value is really what people are paying or if it’s being inflated by scalpers. Some people will pay it but I don’t think it’s an accurate view of what the price should be in that situation. But we saw exactly this with the recent Lorcana release. Local game stores acted like scalpers charging…

>It also is up in the air of the market value is really what people are paying or if it’s being inflated by scalpers

Then use some form of a Dutch auction to sell them.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#195

Post by qup »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
driscoll42 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a significant difference between buying something and reselling, and then having bots buying hundreds/thousands and reselling.

Not really. The demand is what it is, and the supply of tickets is fixed. That sets the price, not the number of different people selling.

The price is fixed.

The scalpers then create a secondary market where there is a supply and demand situation like you talk about.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#196

Post by kortilla »

nerdjon wrote: post #182
josephcsible wrote: post #4

Why do the organizations putting on events like these leave so much money on the table? Why don't they just charge the market-clearing price themselves, leaving no room for scalpers to make any profit?

Then the view of greed falls on the organization and the artists instead of on scalpers. It also is up in the air of the market value is really what people are paying or if it’s being inflated by scalpers. Some people will pay it but I don’t think it’s an accurate view of what the price should be in that situation. But we saw exactly this with the recent Lorcana release. Local game stores acted like scalpers charging…

The scalpers can only charge what people buy it for though. So whatever the scalpers are paying are what the people are willing to pay on average. (This assumes there are any successful scalpers and it’s not just a continuously losing game)

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#197

Post by charcircuit »

slg wrote: post #47
fps-hero wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every action directed at making tickets more affordable will have the opposite effect of making scalping more profitable. Im amazed that a reverse auction style approach hasn’t caught on, when you are capacity limited it seems nearly optimal for extracting profit and kills the ticket scalping business model.

>it seems nearly optimal for extracting profit and kills the ticket scalping business model. Also seems nearly optimal for alienating all but your richest fans. The extra profit you might extract from the concert might not actually put you ahead in the long term when fans stop caring about you because of your profit maximizing business practices.

As opposed to alienating fans who don't know how to use bots, or fans who don't have the time to buy tickets the moment they drop, or fans who are unlucky.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#198

Post by kortilla »

peteradio wrote: post #71
scott_w wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, ironically, a show that only rich people can afford to attend will be pretty terrible. Rich people tend not to loudly enjoy the show, so the atmosphere isn't there. This is bad for the rest of the audience and for the performer. It's hard to put 100% in when all you can see is a bunch of people staring solemnly at you. It happens in football (soccer for my American friends) for clubs like Man Utd (and probab…

Why is it that rich people are solemnly staring in general? You'd think they'd be whooping it up on account of being made.

Rich people involved in business or politics have reputation risk and can’t be seen “letting loose”. See the Dean Scream.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#199

Post by conductr »

codelikeawolf wrote: post #91

I quickly scanned the article, so I might have missed this, but can someone explain how sites like StubHub get away with what they do? As soon as I found out about them, I immediately thought "aren't these people just scalpers that offer tickets on the internet instead of standing out in front of venues?" If the argument is that they're not scalpers , they're resellers , then I'd like to try selling some concert tick…

Just a theory, and I only scanned the article too, but I think they’ve all learned that this aftermarket stuff is good for their business. At least now that things are digital and have fees attached, because they make money whenever tickets change hands. They get to claim it’s a service as they’re providing liquidity to the market.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#200

Post by moritonal »

hedora wrote: post #102
tornato7 wrote: post #38

IMO, Comic Con has done a pretty fine job at eliminating scalpers. They do this in a few ways: - Random selection over an hour at ticket sale time that is unique per device, with some 'are you human' checks along the way to make it more difficult to bot. - Requiring physical delivery of the badge with a maximum number per address, or government issued ID to pick it up in person. - Random ID checks during the con. - T…

If they wanted to eliminate scalping, they could just make the tickets returnable but non-refundable: Put your name on the badge. If you want to sell it, they buy it back at face value minus a restocking fee, and then resell it at original price. This would be much less of a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

The Royal Albert Hall Proms let's you resell via them. If it resells you get your money back, no cost.
Post reply on HN