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Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

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Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#191

Post by edanm »

Brybry wrote: post #98
weatherlite wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They made a shrine to a terrorist (Baruch Goldstein) Not sure what you're talking about here. Baruch Goldstein has no "shrine"* and besides fringe groups in Israel he is generally not accepted. Compare that with the monthly salaries Palestinian terrorists receive from the PLO and their rockstar status in Palestinian society. * he has a grave, Israeli law can't really prevent that. The Israeli government has ruined…

NY Times and AP News described it as a shrine when they reported on the Israeli government demolishing it. [1][2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/30/world/israel-destroys-shr... / https://archive.ph/RNPRh [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohMB-_1lPM

To be clear, this is the context of the original message:

> The irony is that it's probably one of the most racist countries I've ever seen in my entire life. They made a shrine to a terrorist (Baruch Goldstein).

"They" here refers, I believe, to the country being racist.

But saying that "they" made a shrine to Goldstein, in the context of an article describing that the Israeli government destroyed it, is like saying that US society is racist because the US government demloished a statue to Hitler put up by the KKK. It's taking the actions of a tiny group, specifically in the context of the government acting against that group, and somehow saying that reflects the whole country.

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#192

Post by edanm »

pydry wrote: post #89
weatherlite wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They made a shrine to a terrorist (Baruch Goldstein) Not sure what you're talking about here. Baruch Goldstein has no "shrine"* and besides fringe groups in Israel he is generally not accepted. Compare that with the monthly salaries Palestinian terrorists receive from the PLO and their rockstar status in Palestinian society. * he has a grave, Israeli law can't really prevent that. The Israeli government has ruined…

His grave, the shrine: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-jun-05-mn-56910... 10% of Israelis consider him a national hero, according to Israeli polls: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-733523 The Minister for National Security Ben Gvir had a portrait of Baruch in his living room: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir I'd encourage anybody who visits Israel to go and see Kiryat Arba in the we…

It's terrible that anyone supports any terrorist like Goldstein. It's even more terrible that Ben Gvir was elected, given his views.

Though just for context, there is a huge political fight within Israel, partially because of people like Ben Gvir. It's not the whole country supporting this nonsense.

And while 10% of Israelis saying he's a hero is 10% too many, I imagine it's comparable to similar numbers in other countries for similar-ish situations. Still terrible, but not exactly proof that the country is especially racist.

(Though to be fair, it's not like there's zero racism in Israel, though I think it's less about race and more about the national situation/issues around the Palestinians. I don't think it makes sense to think about the Israeli situation in the same way one would think about the racism in the States, for example.)

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#193

Post by edanm »

zarzavat wrote: post #161
redox99 wrote: post #76

Moderation really varies a lot depending both on the language and the group being criticized. For example on twitch, Spanish streamers[1] say a lot of things that would get an English streamer canceled and/or banned for saying it. And for other languages I'm sure the gap is even bigger. The same with the group being criticized. Criticism against Russians is not moderated the same way as criticism against Jewish peopl…

> Criticism against Russians is not moderated the same way as criticism against Jewish people. People are not criticizing ethnic Russians. They are criticizing citizens of the Russian state, which includes people who aren’t ethnically Russian but doesn’t include people who are ethnically Russian in e.g. Ukraine. It’s arguable how much responsibility Russian citizens have for the present situation but it’s more than z…

> Similarly while it’s fine to criticize Israelis for the actions of Israel, it’s not fine to criticize Jewish people in general for it.

I agree, kind of, but let's also please realize that it's similar to criticizing US citizens for the actions of the US state. I wouldn't criticize the average American for the actions of the CIA or for the war in Afghanistan, because the average American might or might not agree with those actions.

In other words, I think it's correct to criticize the country, but incorrect to criticize specific people unless they are personally doing bad things.

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#194

Post by Angostura »

Angostura wrote: post #71
shmde wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So funny to see *unbiased HN users take up pitchfork in support of a literally Monarchy(House of Thani) + State(Qatar) owned propaganda machine news outlet which constantly writes in favour of their Middle East Masters and silently prefers not to tell the truth in their reporting.

Here's their front page. https://www.aljazeera.com Since you say they "constantly write in favour of Quatar, it shouldn't be hard for your find examples. Certainly there's very negative coverage of Quatar's many faults, but that's not the same as constantly pushing a positive agenda. In other areas the reporting seems sound. A starter for you https://www.aljazeera.com/search/quatar?sort=date

That sentence should have read "Certainly there's very little negative coverage of Quatar's many faults..."

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#195

Post by pydry »

edanm wrote: post #191
Brybry wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NY Times and AP News described it as a shrine when they reported on the Israeli government demolishing it. [1][2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/30/world/israel-destroys-shr... / https://archive.ph/RNPRh [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohMB-_1lPM

To be clear, this is the context of the original message: > The irony is that it's probably one of the most racist countries I've ever seen in my entire life. They made a shrine to a terrorist (Baruch Goldstein). "They" here refers, I believe, to the country being racist. But saying that "they" made a shrine to Goldstein, in the context of an article describing that the Israeli government destroyed it , is like sayin…

If you put it like that it'd be like if a Hitler shrine were demolished after 5 years, 10% of Americans considered Hitler a hero and Anthony Blinken still had a portrait of Hitler in his living room.

Oh, and Joe Biden really wants blacks and whites to stop marrying.

That's the level of racism you support if you weaponize anti-semitism in Israel's defense.

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#196

Post by weatherlite »

pydry wrote: post #195
edanm wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, this is the context of the original message: > The irony is that it's probably one of the most racist countries I've ever seen in my entire life. They made a shrine to a terrorist (Baruch Goldstein). "They" here refers, I believe, to the country being racist. But saying that "they" made a shrine to Goldstein, in the context of an article describing that the Israeli government destroyed it , is like sayin…

If you put it like that it'd be like if a Hitler shrine were demolished after 5 years, 10% of Americans considered Hitler a hero and Anthony Blinken still had a portrait of Hitler in his living room. Oh, and Joe Biden really wants blacks and whites to stop marrying. That's the level of racism you support if you weaponize anti-semitism in Israel's defense.

There's 50% of Americans that support Donald Trump so... I don't think its unreasonable to think 10% of Americans hold extreme views.

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#197

Post by pydry »

edanm wrote: post #192
pydry wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His grave, the shrine: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-jun-05-mn-56910... 10% of Israelis consider him a national hero, according to Israeli polls: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-733523 The Minister for National Security Ben Gvir had a portrait of Baruch in his living room: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir I'd encourage anybody who visits Israel to go and see Kiryat Arba in the we…

It's terrible that anyone supports any terrorist like Goldstein. It's even more terrible that Ben Gvir was elected, given his views. Though just for context, there is a huge political fight within Israel, partially because of people like Ben Gvir. It's not the whole country supporting this nonsense. And while 10% of Israelis saying he's a hero is 10% too many, I imagine it's comparable to similar numbers in other cou…

>And while 10% of Israelis saying he's a hero is 10% too many

10% is definitely enough to presume that anybody who throws out an accusation of anti-semitism in defense of Israel is racist by default.

10% is enough to presume that the illegalization of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions in America is an explicitly pro-racist law.

It is possible to make an accusation of anti-semitism that isn't motivated by racism. It's just much rarer than it should be.

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#198

Post by pydry »

weatherlite wrote: post #196
pydry wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you put it like that it'd be like if a Hitler shrine were demolished after 5 years, 10% of Americans considered Hitler a hero and Anthony Blinken still had a portrait of Hitler in his living room. Oh, and Joe Biden really wants blacks and whites to stop marrying. That's the level of racism you support if you weaponize anti-semitism in Israel's defense.

There's 50% of Americans that support Donald Trump so... I don't think its unreasonable to think 10% of Americans hold extreme views.

Did Donald Trump take a machine gun to the 4th holiest mosque in the world and engage in a terrorist killing spree?

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#199

Post by weatherlite »

pydry wrote: post #198
weatherlite wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 50% of Americans that support Donald Trump so... I don't think its unreasonable to think 10% of Americans hold extreme views.

Did Donald Trump take a machine gun to the 4th holiest mosque in the world and engage in a terrorist killing spree?

OK. How many Americans support the invasions to Iraq and Afghanistan ? Probably around a million dead in those two wars. Less than 10% ?

Re: Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel

#200

Post by pydry »

weatherlite wrote: post #199
pydry wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Donald Trump take a machine gun to the 4th holiest mosque in the world and engage in a terrorist killing spree?

OK. How many Americans support the invasions to Iraq and Afghanistan ? Probably around a million dead in those two wars. Less than 10% ?

Most Americans who supported those wars naively believed that they would do more good than harm.

It's not quite the same thing as considering a terrorist who shot up a mosque a hero.

Hence why accusations of anti-semitism in relation to criticism of Israel usually imply that the accuser is an Islamophobic racist. This is what they're defending.

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