Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #95

krapp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The paradox doesn't exist because the premise of the paradox, that tolerance of the intolerant inevitably results in the victory of the intolerant, isn't true. The paradox doesn't apply to actors operating in good faith who simply disagree, but those whose intolerance extends to authoritarianism and violence in oppressing the free speech of their opponents, such as the Nazi regime that insipired it, and its truth se…

In America it is legal to advocate for Nazism. This is legal and simultaneously a non-threat because our system of checks and balances prevents them from overthrowing the government. They are not denied their first amendment rights, and yet they're abject losers. The US government is simultaneously tolerant of them and not threatened by them. The supposed paradox of intolerance says that silencing people who would si…

Post by alexanderdmitri » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

MiguelX413 wrote: post #184

aaron695 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wu refused to go along with China's huge policy shift She was also heavily attacked by people in the West as she also refused to go along with the Wests 'masks don't matter policy' She created Google Docs early on with evidence masks would work contravening the Western governments and the 'trust the science' crowd. Lets not pretend it's just China here, it maybe offtopic to this incident, but at the time you could…

The “trust the science” crowd were the ones advocating for masks, no?

Post by Zanneth » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 6:56 PM UTC

brokenbyclouds wrote: post #194

Zanneth wrote: post #189

I used to like Naomi, but like a lot of intelligent people online recently, she has caught the politics mind virus and began using her platform to spread even more hate and division. These days I find myself desperately craving an online community that just focuses on building cool projects and learning about new stuff, rather than pointless political debates that have extremely little relevance in anyone’s lives.

"I wish this person being persecuted by her government would stop being so political"

Post by Zanneth » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

nextaccountic wrote: post #192

Zanneth wrote: post #189

I used to like Naomi, but like a lot of intelligent people online recently, she has caught the politics mind virus and began using her platform to spread even more hate and division. These days I find myself desperately craving an online community that just focuses on building cool projects and learning about new stuff, rather than pointless political debates that have extremely little relevance in anyone’s lives.

What hate did she spread?

Post by tbrownaw » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:04 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #175

tbrownaw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A version that might be harder to misunderstand would be that if the other side resorts to violence first there's not much reason to continue using only rhetoric. Which even still isn't a hard rule, there's a few well known examples of remaining tolerant (not trying to prevent your opponents from speaking) in the face of intolerance (your opponents do try to prevent you from speaking) and succeeding rather well.

The 'paradox' of meeting violence with violence is the most mundane "I'm 14 and this is deep" shit. I'm pretty sure this is not what people are actually talking about when they talk when they bring up Poppler's "paradox". The "paradox" is used to persuade people that authoritarianism is okay when they do it because everybody thinks of themselves as the good guys. The whole point of tolerance is that you don't meet wo…