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Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

iamvishnu.com

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Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#191

Post by stubish »

jen729w wrote: post #178
stubish wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. I think this is the fundamental problem. Too many people trying to increase conversion in their onboarding funnels, crowding out people who want to put i…

> other than farming people for money Which is a beautiful way to live life. Until you quit your job and build some indie thing and try to make money and fuck, that’s difficult. And you’re broke. And you worked really hard on this thing. Turns out ‘farming people for money’ = ‘paying rent’. And you realise, shit man, if I make it a bit worse according to my ethics and taste, I’ll actually make money. And I won’t have…

It is a tragedy of the commons. My Internet is shittier because other people are trying to monetize it. Same as my back yard and the air I breath.

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#192

Post by mcmcdtx »

slig wrote: post #179
pacifika wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine buying an ikea cabinet for cheap and after assembling 90% they want a large sum for the missing bits.

Imagine getting bits and pieces of a cabinet and having to pay before leaving the store.

This really isn't the same thing because you know how stores work. The whole argument here is that these websites aren't being upfront about what they expect from you. If you said "sign up for a free account and you can get some samples" we walk into the situation with eyes open and that is not what this article is complaining about.

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#193

Post by JohnFen »

stubish wrote: post #153
fishtoaster wrote: post #43

I hate those too. On the other hand, I've been adjacent to the decision to add them before. You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. Dark patterns like this persist because they measurably work. S…

> You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. I think this is the fundamental problem. Too many people trying to increase conversion in their onboarding funnels, crowding out people who want to put i…

That and not enough pushback from devs. Devs, of all people, should be the ones advocating for their customers.

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#194

Post by JohnFen »

jen729w wrote: post #178
stubish wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. I think this is the fundamental problem. Too many people trying to increase conversion in their onboarding funnels, crowding out people who want to put i…

> other than farming people for money Which is a beautiful way to live life. Until you quit your job and build some indie thing and try to make money and fuck, that’s difficult. And you’re broke. And you worked really hard on this thing. Turns out ‘farming people for money’ = ‘paying rent’. And you realise, shit man, if I make it a bit worse according to my ethics and taste, I’ll actually make money. And I won’t have…

What I hear you saying is that you're OK with harming others as long as it lines your pocket.

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#195

Post by hnben »

JohnFen wrote: post #193
stubish wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. I think this is the fundamental problem. Too many people trying to increase conversion in their onboarding funnels, crowding out people who want to put i…

That and not enough pushback from devs. Devs, of all people, should be the ones advocating for their customers.

> Devs, of all people, should be the ones advocating for their customers.

why?

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#196

Post by JohnFen »

hnben wrote: post #195
JohnFen wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and not enough pushback from devs. Devs, of all people, should be the ones advocating for their customers.

> Devs, of all people, should be the ones advocating for their customers. why?

Because we're the ones building the product. If we don't keep our customer's interests in mind, who will?

Don't we all want to make the best product possible?

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#198

Post by thayne »

fishtoaster wrote: post #43

I hate those too. On the other hand, I've been adjacent to the decision to add them before. You're under a lot of pressure to increase conversion in your onboarding funnel, so you test out moving your email capture up a bit in your conversion flow (ie to before you deliver results) and it works! Conversion increases throughout the funnel! So you keep it. Dark patterns like this persist because they measurably work. S…

Of course it increases sign ups. That doesn't mean the users like it. And those extra sign ups are almost certainly costing you trust from your users (and potential users). And most of those additional sign ups will probably never use your site again. So other than increasing a metric that isn't actually what matters, and maybe getting someone a bonus or promotion for increasing said metric it doesn't help the business, especially in the long term.

Re: Dear websites, stop asking for ransom sign-ups

#199

Post by earthling8118 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #138
miki123211 wrote: post #64

I don't really understand who this post is addressed to. The people that decide to do this just want more money. they won't stop because of some rant by a random stranger on the internet. The programmers who implement this have to do what their boss tells them to, or change jobs, and this isn't something worth changing jobs over. Everybody else already knows that it's a thing, knows why it happens and can't do anythi…

> The programmers who implement this have to do what their boss tells them to, or change jobs, and this isn't something worth changing jobs over. I disagree. I've been very intentional about the places I work and have managed to build a successful career while never implementing a dark pattern. "I was just following orders" is not an excuse. Take responsibility for your actions.

I've walked out of jobs for being outright abusive before. This has made the job search much more difficult for me and has been a point of controversy in the hiring decision before. I held out for many months without employment but the savings dry up. This isn't a viable path for everyone to take. It has stunted my personal development and put me in a very difficult financial position.
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