Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#191

Post by MonaroVXR » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #107

danudey wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website analytics can be incredibly useful for designers and developers; giving those up would be a huge hit to a lot of companies, large and small, so it's understandable that they're not going to do so. Random example from more than a decade ago: I worked at an online retailer, and we did a nice redesign of our cart page. Looked great, much more readable, but we started losing sales. Did people hate the redesign? I…

The EU allows you to get stuff like 1024x768 without tracking individuals. This metric works just as well in aggregate. You can have metrics without per user id, or with an ephemeral id that evaporates when you leave the site.

How?

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#192

Post by foverzar » Fri, Aug 04, 2023, 12:03 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #132

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are putting them there because it’s easier and they don’t want to be fined.

When the first cookie law came into action companies sprung up claiming to provide a solution. Rather than actually doing anything useful they'd give you a JavaScript snippet to just dump onto your page and then they'd deal with everything. They'd scan your site and compile a list of cookies and their purpose and present that to your users. It sort of worked, expect the service would frequently fail to recognize cert…

> NO, you want to track people online and the EU is simply asking for you to declare that.

False. Cookies aren't there only to maliciously track your actions and show add. They solve lots of technical issues in various scenarios.

This is your typical premature compliance for a technically incompetent formalistic regulation. Better be safe than sorry - so thats why you see that stupid "this website uses cookies" on every other site that merely has a login form, a captcha, or a cdn - because of course it fucking does.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#193

Post by foverzar » Fri, Aug 04, 2023, 12:12 AM UTC

dns_snek wrote: post #190

slotrans wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookie banners are absolutely the fault of the EU. Users have always been in control of whether they accept cookies. There have been settings in your browser since (at least) Netscape 3.0. It's only because of dumb EU laws that cookie control has been pushed up into "user space" with these idiotic banners that no one reads.

It seems like you don't practice what you preach, seeing how Hacker News relies on cookies for authentication. Besides, GDPR isn't about cookies, it's about what companies are allowed to do with your personal information. Functional cookies don't require consent, abuse of your personal data does.

> Functional cookies don't require consent

You'd want that to be the case, but in practice they do. Just look up how vague the definition of functional cookies is.

No one wants to risk insane fines.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#194

Post by foverzar » Fri, Aug 04, 2023, 12:15 AM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #151

danudey wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website analytics can be incredibly useful for designers and developers; giving those up would be a huge hit to a lot of companies, large and small, so it's understandable that they're not going to do so. Random example from more than a decade ago: I worked at an online retailer, and we did a nice redesign of our cart page. Looked great, much more readable, but we started losing sales. Did people hate the redesign? I…

> but without those analytics we would have had no idea why we lost those sales That's not really my problem as a (viciously tracked) user. Now, is it?

You'll be the one crying about bad UX and "stupid devs" incapable to solve your "obvious" issue.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#195

Post by foverzar » Fri, Aug 04, 2023, 12:28 AM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #140

danudey wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website analytics can be incredibly useful for designers and developers; giving those up would be a huge hit to a lot of companies, large and small, so it's understandable that they're not going to do so. Random example from more than a decade ago: I worked at an online retailer, and we did a nice redesign of our cart page. Looked great, much more readable, but we started losing sales. Did people hate the redesign? I…

> Our marketing guy looked at our analytics and saw that there was a massive drop in checkouts from users whose displays were set to 1024x768. He changed his resolution and, sure enough, the 'Checkout' button was something like four pixels below the bottom of the screen, if you were using Internet Explorer or Chrome and you had your browser maximized. Hint: buy the cheapest crappiest laptop you can find. Test your si…

Why do you give those retroactive hints as if it is something obvious?

You are clearly confusing the issue here.

No one cares for your smartass solution for the problem - it's obvious enough once you are aware of the problem itself. The issue is tracking the problem in the first place.

Hints like "oh you should have just been totally aware of it in the first place" are plain naive.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#196

Post by qeternity » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

snehk wrote: post #187

qeternity wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disrespecting privacy rights It's not as if these companies are kicking in your door and violating your right to privacy. You're accessing their site with a device that is configured to transmit whatever you have it set to. If you don't want cookies, disable cookies. If you want greater control, go and configure it yourself. Stop forcing your preferences on everyone. The reality is that outside of a vocal contingen…

Tracking doesn't only happen through cookies. I thought this was well-known?

I am using cookies as a catch all term, as many people do. I thought this was well known.

If you don’t want fingerprinting, disable canvas, fonts, or JS entirely. My point is that you are downloading code and then executing it. You have control.

Re: Sigh, this is what browsing the web in the EU looks like nowadays (2021)

#197

Post by qeternity » Sat, Aug 05, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

iamacyborg wrote: post #121

qeternity wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disrespecting privacy rights It's not as if these companies are kicking in your door and violating your right to privacy. You're accessing their site with a device that is configured to transmit whatever you have it set to. If you don't want cookies, disable cookies. If you want greater control, go and configure it yourself. Stop forcing your preferences on everyone. The reality is that outside of a vocal contingen…

> You're accessing their site with a device that is configured to transmit whatever you have it set to. This is not how it works. Me visiting a website does not mean I want that website to send my personal identifiers to hundreds of unknown (both to me and the website operator in question) third parties.

Ok, so don’t go the site then?