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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#191

As someone who is a somewhat new to web technologies, can someone really explain why this is bad? I saw the techical discussions in the PRs made to the WEI repo but it was all super technical that I was not able to understand the arguments made for and against it.

WEI turns non-compliant browsers into second-class citizens. You’re perfectly free to use whatever compliant browser engine and OS combo you like today – but in a world with WEI, you’ll have to use Approved Chrome on an Approved OS on Approved Hardware with Approved Signing Keys, or you won’t be able to sign into your bank.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#192
Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#193
post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

what exactly do you want to preserve from the web as we know it today?

let it burn

focus on building something new, new protocols, new networks, new browsers

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#194
post #34

And also, to switch back to Firefox

Exactly. I use Firefox for everything. It renders all the pages fine and is speedy enough so that I never question its performance. But even if it had some issues, those were minor compared to the danger the web is in now.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#195
post #4

Can somebody explain what are the practical implications of this?

This is essentially a backdoor attempt to TiVoize[0] web browsers. The only difference is that, instead of directly using hardware to prevent you from running a modified browser, the intent is to use network effects to accomplish the same thing.

[0]- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#196

I realise all the negative effects if this starts becoming a thing, but could someone explain how is it they propose to technically enforce this "signed browser binary" requirement? What's stopping me from writing my browser to submit false info? Any encryption keys or hashes present in the "certified" binaries can be extracted (the binary after all needs access to it to use it, right?). The only way this has a sligh…

Edge is based on Chromium now, has been for years. Wouldn't be a leap to have TPM enforcement here too.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#197
Mozilla should call for Google's removal from the W3C over this implementation of Web Environment Integrity. "But Chrome has 65% market share, what good is the W3C without them?” If Google can take unilateral action to fundamentally change the basic principles of the web, then the W3C is already useless. This will give Google a clear choice: if they want to maintain the idea that the W3C matters, they should withdraw this implementation.

It is unbelievable that over the course of 3 days, the potential future of the web has been put in such dire straits. There's already an existing, far less troubling (while still bad), proposal in the form of Private Access Tokens going through a standards committee that Google chose to ignore. They presented this proposal in the shadiest way possible through a personal GitHub account. They immediately shut down outside contribution and comments. And despite the blowback they are already shoving a full implementation into Chromium.

What we need is real action, and this is the role Mozilla has always presented itself as serving. A "true" disinterested defender of the ideals of the web. Now is the time to prove it. Simply opposing this proposal isn't enough. This is about as clear and basic an attack on what fundamentally differentiates the web from every walled garden as possible. If someone drafted a proposal to the W3C that stated that only existing browsers should be allowed to render web pages, the correct response would not be to "take the stance that you oppose that proposal," it would be to seriously question whether the submitting party should even participate in the group. Make no mistake, that is what is happening now.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#198
post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

Is https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... the best place to shame?

https://support.github.com/contact/report-abuse?category=rep...

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#199
post #88
post #34

And also, to switch back to Firefox

And what happens when website owners decide supporting Firefox is not worth it?

It would be much less likely if we could get the market share back to 2010 levels.

Is that a realistic goal? I don't know, maybe not, but it seems like there's little will even in tech to try.

There was a time when tech was the biggest driver of alternate browser adoption, and even managed to make serious inroads into the mainstream. It's a huge shame that this attitude seems long gone.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a mechanism to "approve you". We don't have any clue who people are and so even if I wanted to "approve you" I couldn't.

Sorry, this was wrong. I was a fool to post that without providing context and I apologise. I have updated my comment. I sometimes forget there are real people on the other side of the computer sometimes. It was this thread, where you mentioned emailing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34639212

Ah. Makes sense now. I did wonder what you were talking about.
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