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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

191–200 of 343 posts

Re: At this company, we are family

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

Yes, sadly HN does seem to have a high proportion of folks who don't seem to understand the value of human connection. Everything is about technology. But not all mission statements are meaningless, and not all attempts by executives to create a family-like culture come from a bad place. Much of it comes from a good place, and it often works. But people who experience this I think are less likely to write on HN.

> But not all mission statements are meaningless, and not all attempts by executives to create a family-like culture come from a bad place.

Executives that make promises to their employees they can't deliver on should know better. You can't create a "family" out of your company because the realities of running a business make that impossible. It's fine to encourage mutual respect, etc as cultural values but it's important to make clear where the boundaries are or people will be hurt (either financially or emotionally) when you can't deliver. Saying the company is "like a family" is blurring these lines, not making them clear.

Edit: That's not even mentioning how "we're like a family" usually means "we're like a TV family". Many real families sometimes fight, swear at each other, say fucked up, sometimes racist/sexist/etc, things, talk about politics and religion, etc. Most larger companies would not tolerate any of this.

Re: At this company, we are family

#192

I thought after Netflix's culture deck and Reed Hoffman's book Alliance, it would be pretty clear that a company is not a family. It could an alliance, it could be a professional sports team, or it could be some business entity, but definitely not a family. I particularly like the concept of alliance, as it reflects the reality. Well, I guess the memo is not as well known as I thought.

I don't recall where I heard it, but Netflix's own wording were "we're not a family; we're a team".

Re: At this company, we are family

#193

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

Actions, not words.

From my experience, the more a company TALKS about being a family, the less it acts like one.

Re: At this company, we are family

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look I'm not saying you need to stay out drinking until 10pm but team-building is important to any job, especially if you're a leader, and much of that team cohesiveness happens outside of work hours. It's not too surprising if skipping all team-building events results in... not being a part of the team

1: I attended every department team building meeting we hosted every weekday morning. 2: I hosted every company-wide team building meeting every Tuesday morning. 3: I attended every quarterly week-long retreat for department team building. I have no reason, desire, or requirement to explain to management why a recovering alcoholic might not be the best person to attend what boils down to a 5-hour-long bar crawl.

I'm just making a general point, I obviously know nothing about your specific situation

Re: At this company, we are family

#196

The problem with this and many companies trying to be family etc, is that they completely misunderstand what a family is. Most think a family is a group where people love each other and care for each other. This is wrong, love and affections are symptoms of a healthy family, you can love and care for your friends, you don’t have a family with them. You can actually not really like spending time with many people in yo…

Adult family relationships have historically been culturally mandatory and unseverable but that’s increasingly not the case in the US. Cultural messages that use therapy-speak, if not necessarily promulgated by actual therapists, encourages more and more atomization. Anyone that is annoying, disagreeable, or who has the wrong ideology is labeled “toxic” and people are encouraged to cut them out of their lives. This i…

I have been intentionally toxic to my family for years, and only recently succeeded in having them cut me out of their lives.

The "unseverable" bonds of family have caused a litany of mental and physical problems for me my entire life. It's only since my "toxic" behavior finally exhausted their fidelity that I've begun to feel like myself.

Re: At this company, we are family

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly the same in Austria, you can always get fired without any reasons and without any severance, you just have to rely on unemployment. It still sucks though compared to other countries where you can't easily get fired, as the unemployment money might not always cover your expenses like mortgage, if you had a high paying job and got into a lot of debt for a house. And this system of being easy to fire people…

Correction: you cannot get fired ("Entlassung") without any reason in Austria, you need rather strong reasons to fire somebody[0], but your employment contract can be terminated with a notice period anytime* ("Kündigung")[1]. The notice period is 6 weeks at minimum by law (6-12 weeks is common in startups by employment contract) and includes "Postensuchtage"[2], which allow you to use 20% of your time during the noti…

>but your employment contract can be terminated with a notice period anytime ("Kündigung")

Yes, that's what I meant by being fired, with notice. You thought I meant being fired without notice which is uncommon anywhere in Europe unless the employee did something illegal.

The fact that in Austria your employer can terminate your employment contract anytime with a notice period, and for no reason, is very rare in Europe as it makes employees super vulnerable to loosing their jobs anytime.

In most EU countries, with better employee protections, employers need valid reason and proof to terminate your contract with notice, otherwise they can get sued for wrongful termination and have to pay penalties.

Also, in Austria you can even get fired (with notice) while you're on sick leave, which is pretty barbaric by EU standards.

Re: At this company, we are family

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 20% up to 37k, 40% after that through 125k, and 45% after that. The US federal income tax is graduated much more finely but hits 12% between 10k and 42k and 22% from there to 89k, and 24% until 140k. This neglects any state income or sales tax as well.

The highest band is the only one that matters really, at least if we're talking about people that could freely choose to work in either country at top tech companies.

Not really concerned about the people for whom the top bracket represents most of their taxable income. Even well paid developers have most of their income taxed below that rate anyway.

Re: At this company, we are family

#199
post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

Americans do not look to government to protect, coddle or provide for them. That is the big difference.

I neither want nor desire government to be my parent

Re: At this company, we are family

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's autistic, these kinds of companies are very difficult for me. Usually the "we're family" companies are also the "let's have a social event constantly", or return to the office days are also just filled with socializing. I get it.. some people really enjoy that, but that's not everyone. It feels like it's by design to exclude other kinds of people who don't enjoy a hyper social environment.

I don't think company-sponsored social events are designed to exclude non-social types, they're just for the benefit of social employees. Of course, this is coming from someone who really enjoys drinking on the company dime

Maybe not by design, but they must be worse for non-social types (or parents or people with other after work responsibilities.)
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