Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#191

Post by r00fus » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 4:44 PM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #135

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems disingenuous when the climate catastrophe is going to have far greater effects on modern life. Too many people are clinging to the dream of continuing to dig out and burn as much oil as possible when it's clear that that behaviour is not sustainable. Although personal responsibility is never a bad thing, we need to focus on the big companies that have been deliberately hiding climate science for decades -…

People don't dream about burning more oil, they dream about the quality of life that this process affords us. Things like uninterrupted power, (uninterrupted) running water, cleaner water, the internet, cheap food, enough food (fertilizers/Haber-Bosch process), accessible transportation, economies of scale etc. While few of these things require fossil fuels, fossil fuels are nevertheless the reason why these things a…

The really crazy part is that petroleum supply is not a sustainable resource, so we're extravagantly flaring it off when in reality using it for things like fertilizers or steel production while using nuclear/solar + batteries + HVDC for all other purposes would allow us to maintain or improve standard of living for far longer.

> Companies don't make stuff for fun, they do it because there's consumer demand for it.

Companies have so much power that they can fabricate (or suppress) their own demand by manipulating the political sphere. The situation exists because it's more easily profitable, the alternative takes time/effort, and our market/government incentives only focus on short-term thinking. The same companies that profit prevent changes to such incentives.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#192

Post by r00fus » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #140

danjac wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German Greens are slowly inching towards nuclear, now the original 1980s membership are dying off and the Gazprom funding is running out: https://www.dw.com/en/german-greens-lay-out-nuclear-power-po...

The only function nuclear has is to keep the profits flowing for the same companies that have been running all coal plants. It's really just the same people who were opposing renewables because "too expensive" in order to continue running their profitable fossil fuel plants. Now that it's clear that that gravy train is running out they push nuclear, because they would be the only ones being able to deliver (in contra…

> The only function nuclear has is to keep the profits flowing for the same companies that have been running all coal plants.

Mission fucking accomplished. If nuclear simply isn't profitable they'll have to shift to solar+wind+battery eventually.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#193

Post by junon » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #138

junon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These personal decisions make little difference in the grand scheme of things.

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi This quote emphasizes the idea that if individuals embody and practice positive values and actions, it can lead to a significant impact on the world around them. Similarly, if everyone were to act rightly, it would undoubtedly result in a different and improved world.

> if everyone were to act rightly

Yes, but that's not reality. Hoping for the best whilst not actually making a dent in carbon emissions is not helping the problem at all.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#194

Post by yyyk » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #20

H8crilA wrote: post #4

At which point do you think humanity will start seriously thinking about radical solutions? Such as detonating thermonuclear weapons to throw enough dust above the troposphere to cool the planet down? I'm thinking we're still really far away. Migration from areas that become uninhabitable is still weak. And it doesn't look like any state that has substantial military/commercial/political power is interested in starti…

The "radical" solutions are not just throwing more technology at the problems. That's how we got ourselves into this mess in the first place. The solution is to stop mindless consumption. We use the same material to wrap and bake food and drink unhealthy drinks as we do to build airplanes. We use plastic for use cases that take place over seconds and minutes and then throw it away. We drive everywhere because of poor…

>We use the same material to wrap and bake food and drink unhealthy drinks as we do to build airplanes

It's not the same material. There are thousands of types of very different plastics.

>We drive everywhere because of poor urban design

Reversing allegedly poor urban design is the work of decades.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#195

Post by bmitc » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

yyyk wrote: post #194

bmitc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "radical" solutions are not just throwing more technology at the problems. That's how we got ourselves into this mess in the first place. The solution is to stop mindless consumption. We use the same material to wrap and bake food and drink unhealthy drinks as we do to build airplanes. We use plastic for use cases that take place over seconds and minutes and then throw it away. We drive everywhere because of poor…

>We use the same material to wrap and bake food and drink unhealthy drinks as we do to build airplanes It's not the same material. There are thousands of types of very different plastics. >We drive everywhere because of poor urban design Reversing allegedly poor urban design is the work of decades.

>> We use the same material to wrap and bake food and drink unhealthy drinks as we do to build airplanes

> It's not the same material. There are thousands of types of very different plastics.

Aluminum.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#196

Post by noduerme » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

tuatoru wrote: post #146

noduerme wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop having babies.

Just stop othering the problem. Look in the mirror. Have you been on a plane? Do you use motor transport? Does your home have electricity? The problem is you, not some baby in a country where people consume in a year what an American does in a day.

I didn't specify a country where people should stop having babies. As far as I'm concerned, every one baby Americans have is more ecologically harmful than 5 babies in Africa.

It's not othering the problem. I think that the people who are already here are already doing enough damage, and that it's enormously selfish and pathologically narcissistic to want to add more humans to the world just to pass along your DNA. Of all the things you listed, I will never consume more than one human's worth of those resources. Whereas for every child you have, you are placing a claim on exponentially increasing resources in perpetuity.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#197

Post by noduerme » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #137

noduerme wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop having babies.

Why be passive? Design cars to kill their occupants turn them to compost. Even more green.

This is like if I said "stop buying Bitcoin" and you were like "why not just set all your money on fire?"

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#198

Post by vkou » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #145

vkou wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we instead of make some changes on local level that effectively work with the climate change or minimise the impact? We can always get our towns ready to receive the millions of climate refugees we'll be creating.

Towns have no future in a collapse. Too hot, too water/fossil fuel dependent, too unsustainable.

No, it's the other way around.

Towns and cities are actually far more resource efficient than rural and suburban sprawl.

The only inefficient thing in them is highrises. But five-story buildings are incredibly infrastructure-efficient. Walking through a midrise neighborhood puts you past more people per minute, than driving 120 mph through a suburb.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#199

Post by xboxnolifes » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:54 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #197

Ygg2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why be passive? Design cars to kill their occupants turn them to compost. Even more green.

This is like if I said "stop buying Bitcoin" and you were like "why not just set all your money on fire?"

No it's not. It's like if you said to stop making Bitcoin miners, and they said to intentionally sabotage existing Bitcoin miners.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#200

Post by myshpa » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 6:56 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #198

myshpa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Towns have no future in a collapse. Too hot, too water/fossil fuel dependent, too unsustainable.

No, it's the other way around. Towns and cities are actually far more resource efficient than rural and suburban sprawl. The only inefficient thing in them is highrises. But five-story buildings are incredibly infrastructure-efficient. Walking through a midrise neighborhood puts you past more people per minute, than driving 120 mph through a suburb.

> No, it's the other way around

When everything works as intended. In a collapse everything changes.

Imagine energy grid not working, no tap water, non-existent food supply, money is worthless ... such kind of future.