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The past is not true

sive.rs

191–200 of 362 posts

Re: The past is not true

#191

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

Didn’t call it enabling, more of a retroactive salve. Responded to a similar comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36802843

Re: The past is not true

#192

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

If you are interested in images' role in public perception of events--particularly suffering and tragedy--you might look to read Susan Sontag's essay collection "Regarding the Pain of Others," published in 2003:

> To the militant, identity is everything. And all photographs wait to be explained or falsified by their captions. During the fighting between Serbs and Croats at the beginning of the recent Balkan wars, the same photographs of children killed in the shelling of a village were passed around at both Serb and Croat propaganda briefings. Alter the caption, and the children’s deaths could be used and reused.

> a single photograph or filmstrip claims to represent exactly what was before the camera’s lens. A photograph is supposed not to evoke but to show. That is why photographs, unlike handmade images, can count as evidence. But evidence of what?

> Indeed, the very notion of atrocity, of war crime, is associated with the expectation of photographic evidence. Such evidence is, usually, of something posthumous.

> And, of course, atrocities that are not secured in our minds by well-known photographic images, or of which we simply have had very few images—the total extermination of the Herero people in Namibia decreed by the German colonial administration in 1904; the Japanese onslaught in China, notably the massacre of nearly four hundred thousand, and the rape of eighty thousand, Chinese in December 1937, the so-called Rape of Nanking; the rape of some one hundred and thirty thousand women and girls (ten thousand of whom committed suicide) by victorious Soviet soldiers unleashed by their commanding officers in Berlin in 1945—seem more remote. These are memories that few have cared to claim.

> Shock can become familiar. Shock can wear off. Even if it doesn’t, one can not look. People have means to defend themselves against what is upsetting—in this instance, unpleasant information for those wishing to continue to smoke. This seems normal, that is, adaptive. As one can become habituated to horror in real life, one can become habituated to the horror of certain images.

Re: The past is not true

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has experienced several serious floods, this is my favorite example of imagery's ability to craft a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4 Floodwaters tend to stir up a lot of dirt and mud, so the water is usually totally opaque. That makes it very hard to tell how deep it is. A lot of overhead views of flooded neighborhoods look completely disastrous, but in reality it's just a foot or t…

People also completely underestimate how much force flowing water has. It's hard enough to walk in waist-deep water when it's still. Somehow they see a few feet of rushing water and they think "hey, I'm gonna drive my car through that"

Arizona has a law, aptly titled "stupid motorist law" or "idiot's law", which specifically addresses this.

Yet people still drive into flooded roads and get swept downstream on a regular basis because "it's just a couple inches of water".

Re: The past is not true

#194

history doesn't exist. at most we have "historiography": the made up mythical tale of the past[3]. why? it's easier to remember[2,4] in oral cultures people just re-adjust their memory, subconsciously[1] in written culture, people burn books, driven by their leaders.[2] in transitional cultures, 'bad' comments are donwvoted, or moderated away, or the users get shadowbanned[2] [1] "Orality and Literacy" by Walter J. O…

I think you're wrong about historiography (and your highschool history teacher too).

"History" is accounts (stories) about the past.

"Historiography" isn't about the past; it's an account of how historians "do" history. I mean, historiography would include accounts of how past historians used to do history.

Re: The past is not true

#195

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

> But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people.

Overreacting can have equally bad outcomes, I think. Social isolation sanctioned by pandemic era school lockdowns left me with depression, social anxiety and suicidal ideations - none of which I have managed to fix so far. And I know I'm not alone with this in my age group (in high-school at the start of the pandemic).

Now, I think the resulting number of suicides does not reach the amount of people saved by the countermeasures in total, but it's nevertheless something to consider. (Well, but it's much harder to find a direct correlation in the first place, so really who knows.)

(Re-reading your comment, I now realize that maybe I was completely missing your point, in which case I'm sorry.)

Re: The past is not true

#196

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

Everyone is not among the worst people you (or I) have ever met. Not needing to be told that they caused harm is one of the things that makes them not among the worst people you (or I) have ever met. Sivers' parable is about his (and our) interpretations of the past -- Sive.rs publishes parables not facts. Context is relevant, here. Yes, worst people gonna' worst people. Sociopaths are not Sive.rs audience. His point…

The people I’m referencing are normal people doing things that are accepted as a normal part of doing business. They do it because there are no consequences and may even been an advantage to engaging in light anti-social behavior.

That lady just had a baby and needs to go home at 5:00 PM says one NPR reporter/podcaster/host early in their career? Sound like she’s not committed, I’ll take on her work as I, for one, am committed. True story. Told on a podcast.

Or how about the kind of person who takes credit for another’s work because they can.

I’m not talking about murderers here, I’m talking about normal people doing shitty things and making the world just a little bit worse for everyone (and a lot worse for some in particular) and use whatever to justify their behavior as part of their personal story.

Re: The past is not true

#197
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

As the article says, they should be pushing for redemption opportunities for all convicted felons (based on a humanistic perspective), not just themselves (based on some confused notion of an “I have become successful enough to buy high-priced lawyers to retcon my rap sheet since I have redeemed myself” perspective)

Re: The past is not true

#198
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

Accept that sometimes when you do a bad thing that permanently harms someone else you don't deserve forgiveness (not everyone is christian FFS) and it's not wrong for that to follow you around forever. If that makes you uncomfortable, too fucking bad, don't irreversibly blind someone.

Re: The past is not true

#199
There’s also a chance he went to apologize and never get a relief or forgiveness as the person was really paralyzed. It is not fair to judge based on the result. Mistake made, apologize immediately, don’t wait. And take the consequences whether it is good or bad - that’s a true move on from the past.

Re: The past is not true

#200

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

> Most people who have been told that they’ve caused actual harm, probably did. I think you might be missing the point of the story. To my understanding it could have easily have turned from a rosy past to a grim presence and it would have worked all the same. The point of the story is that, supposedly, the difference in perception is the entire difference. Something is not true, just because it's in the past. The ac…

No I got it.

Parables are supposed to be stories that teach us something about ourselves, the world, and how we engage with it.

I fundamentally disagree with the moral of this story as written.

Make it about something other than thinking that you paralyzed someone through negligence and it’s a different ballgame.

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