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The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

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Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#191

Post by Pet_Ant »

AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #188

I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the iss…

I mean I don't think the criticism that it costs more than traditional TV is valid. Traditional TV is a linear stream where you are sending out one signal for everyone. On demand is a different beast altogether, so even if it were the exact cost or more, then it'd still be a win. That's not even including the fact that the content that gets made of YouTube or Twitch wouldn't have ever been made on old TV. If you had told me 20 years ago that it would cost the same or even a bit more but you get all this, I'd've signed up in a heartbeat.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#192

Post by garciasn »

AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #188

I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the iss…

This is EXACTLY what cable companies predicted would happen when we went a la carte. They were using their monopoly power to drive down the overall price of packaged TV and by de-bundling, we end up paying more overall. For once they were correct and I apologize for questioning it 15 years ago.

That said, I am ok with SOME advertisements to keep the web running. There are two big problems with this:

1. Market investors expect their stock to continue to rise, forever. When it doesn't, they push for more revenue, but instead of adding new products or functionality, they push for ad revenue instead.

2. Ad revenue as a model for revenue generation means that we need more ads, as opposed to building better products. This means that the entire web is inundated with advertisements that overwhelm the overall experience and will continue to get worse and worse over time.

This is a product of investment and lack of reinvestment in new products/function and instead more immediate revenue gains as opposed to slow-and-steady rise in value. Investors want to cash in NOW and not over time and thus we have entered a time where 3 ads precede every video alongside in-video sponsorships and more traditional 15-30 second ads within each. It's absurd.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#193

Post by carlosjobim »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #46

Good. The internet was really fun before the ads and monetization came. We had forums and personal web sites. Weird blogs everywhere you looked. Some semblance of anonymity. A sense of community that wasn't about growing a following.

This sentiment reads pretty much like auto enthusiasts musing about how good things were when every car owner knew how to fix his car and things were more simple. The world has moved on, the Internet is not a hobby or specialization anymore, just like reading and writing used to be and no longer is.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#194

Post by andreygrehov »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #175
andreygrehov wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought everybody hates advertising, no? Let's do a thought experiment and imagine Elon brought more advertising on Twitter. Everyone would bullshit on him for that. In reality, we have the opposite situation. There is less advertising. On top of that, ad revenue is now being shared with creators. What's bad about it?

My day job is helping sell ad-free, subscriptions, so I'm a fan of the idea. That said, Elon is driving away the lucrative advertisers and not dropping ads entirely. Even Blue subscribers still get ads, albeit fewer. At their scale and in their market the premium subscriptions model doesn't appear to work, unless their costs can be reduced much, much further. Sharing revenue with creators is great. Not everything bei…

Also, Paul, if you think Elon is doing something completely wrong, I encourage you to jump on Twitter Spaces and explain your concerns directly to him. He is live from time to time and happily chimes into a conversation with mere mortals.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#195

Post by earthboundkid »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #111

Some people, besides the ones who read HN, believe the success of online advertising service providers, including so-called "Big Tech" and "adtech", is based on fraud. Please distinguish the success of online advertising service providers, e.g., Google, versus the success of online advertisers, e.g., Joe's Pizza. One example is Bob Hoffman. Hoffman is an ad industry veteran who suggests that despite all the advances…

I think it's pretty obvious just as a consumer that banner ads don't work. No one deliberately clicks on them, and meanwhile every major site has obvious scam ads on it. Magazines always had scam ads, but they were in the back pages in small print. Now the scam ads are quite prominent (and disgusting). People in general like ads: they sing jingles, they talk about funny Super Bowl ads, they buy the mattress their podcast host recommends, they cut out magazine ads as mini-posters, they follow Instagram influencers (glamorous product placement), etc. No one likes banner ads. They have had no impact on pop culture since "punch the monkey" and "one weird trick" (both scams, btw), and in general, they are worthless, so the whole market for them is rotten.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#196

Post by stronglikedan »

lettergram wrote: post #84
gleenn wrote: post #5

His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Elon seems to almost actively be killing Twitter (which the poster even states). Reddit screwed Apollo and then many of the most popular subreddits protested and did things like show porn on otherwise usually SFW content to prevent Reddit from showing ads and thus killing their profits. Those are big…

I keep asking this because I don’t understand - how is Elon “killing” twitter? I’ve frankly not seen any difference, at all. If anything there’s slightly more activity

Not sure why you're downvoted, as your observations are completely correct. In fact, there's so much more activity that they've been trying different ways to keep the UX efficient and stable. But, of course, some of the things they've tried haven't worked out so well, so people just like to cherrypick those to make incorrect arguments against Twitters newfound viablity.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#197

Post by stronglikedan »

warbeforepeace wrote: post #163
lettergram wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep asking this because I don’t understand - how is Elon “killing” twitter? I’ve frankly not seen any difference, at all. If anything there’s slightly more activity

Its becoming a far right cesspool. And its making even less money than the little that it did before. Most people i know don't use it anymore.

If anything, it's just become more centered, now that people aren't getting banned for not conforming to the political whims of the flow of information.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#198

Post by alistairSH »

garciasn wrote: post #192
AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #188

I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the iss…

This is EXACTLY what cable companies predicted would happen when we went a la carte. They were using their monopoly power to drive down the overall price of packaged TV and by de-bundling, we end up paying more overall. For once they were correct and I apologize for questioning it 15 years ago. That said, I am ok with SOME advertisements to keep the web running. There are two big problems with this: 1. Market investo…

we end up paying more overall

A basic Fios TV package is $75/month today.

Most streaming services are around $20-$30/month and allow month-to-month plans.

You can fairly easily rotate among 4-5 services, using 2-3 at a time, to keep costs lower than with traditional cable. This works pretty well if you have non-specific TV interests. Where they really get you is with sports - that market is super fragmented and getting most of NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB can cost a fortune.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#199

Post by meristohm »

AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #188

I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the iss…

WIRED, among many other periodicals, is available online through https://libbyapp.com at my local tax-funded public library (I'm in the USA). I do wonder how things would change if most people started using the library for most of their entertainment and education, as I do.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#200

Post by spacemadness »

Medh_Suk wrote: post #104
gleenn wrote: post #5

His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Elon seems to almost actively be killing Twitter (which the poster even states). Reddit screwed Apollo and then many of the most popular subreddits protested and did things like show porn on otherwise usually SFW content to prevent Reddit from showing ads and thus killing their profits. Those are big…

Marketers have ruined internet with deceptive and click baity ads. I dont have a problem with ads, just dont sell my data to everyone who knocks on your companies doors. Happy to support ethical ads. Twitter ads are aweful, showing unknown, click bait ads on its platform.

It’s interesting we hear a lot about how engineers need to understand ethics, but nobody says a peep about the field of marketing which focuses on psychological manipulation and deception.
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