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Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

ilga.gov

191–200 of 265 posts

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#191
post #91

Am I the only one that is OK with CCTV + facial recognition? Seems like a great way to tackle crime without having to involve potentially deadly encounters with police. Ya there are ways it could be abused, but I assume I have no privacy (as does the law) when I am in a public space. A lot cheaper than cops too. Put laws and systems in place to keep the data secure and require warrants to access the data. (No lethal…

Wrongfully Accused by an Algorithm - New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/technology/facial-recogni...

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#193
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state reps seem to be better. But our federal senators are pretty awful tankies. (Durban and Duckworth.. they'll full on send you a tone death letter about why encryption is awful after you send them your concerns)

I'm curious how they qualify as tankies? Neither of them are even socialist let alone some kind of authoritarian communist.

I mentioned in another comment, I think I may have been incorrect in the usage of tankie. I meant authoritarian.

I've been active in contacting my senators for the bills that came up that were a threat to privacy and destroying encryption for the last few years. KOSA, BAN TICKTOCK, EARN IT, etc. Addition to the encoarching collection of biometric data of citizens by the federal government and private entities.

I've got nothing but form letters quickly responded that "it's for the kids" in those cases. No acceptance that they'll collect and consider the feedback, just tone death emails saying "well EARN IT is going to protect the kids [ignore that lindsay graham wants to wack it to your personal photos and call it scanning]".

I've had a friend with an issue getting her husband getting an ESTA for family travel to the US and had some concerning interviewing agents. I tried reaching out for her... nothing.

Duckworth and Durbin are good D politicans, as in they tow the party line. As far as representation of IL needs and supporting rights ... they don't care.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#194
My only concern here is that police in North America already have a mobile units that can pursue and attack people on command with ostensibly less-than-lethal power which have occasionally killed people by accident.

They're called dogs.

I'm having trouble seeing a drone with a taser as worse.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an argument of process over substance. Good laws should be applied as widely as possible. Bad laws should be as local as possible, preferably applied nowhere at all.

>Good laws should be applied as widely as possible. Good for whom? Supermajority, sure. Anything less should be at the state and local level.

You're back into process again. Laws do not have metadata attached to them, their goodness is a function of the observer.

You think a law is good if you think it's good. You preference is then for it to be applied as widely as possible. Maybe other people disagree, and so should want it applied nowhere. Now you get to fight with them, using whatever power you have and are willing to use. Whoever has the most power to bring to the fight will win it.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hourslong negotiations with the man broke down into an exchange of gunfire, Dallas Police Chief David Brown said at a news conference Friday morning. At that point, the officers deployed a robot armed with an explosive." That's hardly the stuff of Robocop dystopia. That seems a reasonable and proportionate response to a long siege and multiple instances of gunfire exchange in which 5 policemen had lost their lives e…

> That's hardly the stuff of Robocop dystopia. Does it have to be dystopian before one disagrees on principle? I don't want killerbots normalized - the same justifications on this precedent will be applicable to a "Robocop dystopia", such as police departments buying and operating (or contracting) used MQ-9 Reapers or whatever drone Axon is cooking up

What does normalized mean here? Do I accept a future in which all people actively engaging police in gunfire over multiple hours are subject to killing by a remote-controlled machine? I do.

Do I accept roving bands of killer drones flying overhead programmed to autonomously kill? I do not.

It seems like we’re basically in the first circumstance since the use of a robot to terminate the firefight in Dallas was literally unprecedented.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's hardly the stuff of Robocop dystopia. Does it have to be dystopian before one disagrees on principle? I don't want killerbots normalized - the same justifications on this precedent will be applicable to a "Robocop dystopia", such as police departments buying and operating (or contracting) used MQ-9 Reapers or whatever drone Axon is cooking up

What does normalized mean here? Do I accept a future in which all people actively engaging police in gunfire over multiple hours are subject to killing by a remote-controlled machine? I do. Do I accept roving bands of killer drones flying overhead programmed to autonomously kill? I do not. It seems like we’re basically in the first circumstance since the use of a robot to terminate the firefight in Dallas was literal…

> What does normalized mean here?

I don't want any police departments to have carte blanche on authorizing drone executions by land, sea or air. The Dallas PD didn't see itself as encumbered by any laws - so they could hypothetically use a UAV to drop explosives today. I would like legislation to prevent this from repeating - using a killerbot shouldn't be a field-decision, IMO.

We need clear rules of engagement. At the moment, police forces are adopting military equipment, but not discipline.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#199
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of incentive. Sure, the Alphabet Agencies aren't intrinsically good, but they have little motive to protect the misconduct within local police precincts.

"but they have little motive to protect the misconduct within local police precincts" Maybe. The way I see it, all of law enforcement has an "US vs Them (criminals, etc)" attitude, and are very hesitant to throw each other under the bus, or even openly criticize eachother unless it is 100% necessary...

I used to be a "back the blue" guy, but that's because I'm a pretty boring person who hasn't needed to deal with confronting the police before. After watching channels like Audit the Audit and LackLuster on YouTube (excellent channels btw), I have a newfound respect for the handful of cops that actually stick within the limits of their authority and remain respectful. I also have a newfound disdain for the other 90% of officers. Of course, since the channels focus mainly on police misconduct, it's easy to get a skewed perspective that almost all police are like that, which may also not be true. The fact that so many video examples of tyranny exist is frightening regardless, however.

One of the new "metas" in policing is getting people to open their front door to talk, and then putting their foot in the doorway to prevent it from being closed without being considered "assault on a peace officer." How that shit isn't struck down immediately by SCOTUS baffles me. It violates the 4th and 5th amendments simultaneously.

And also the incessent use of the "I smell marijuana" excuse to be able to freely search peoples' vehicles and persons. There's just so many shady tactics the police use to intentionally skirt the spirit of the law and our rights, while still passing the letter of the law.

Re: Illinois prohibits weapons, facial recognition on police drones

#200
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are good counters to these arguments?

I'll add to abeppu's arguments. > If law enforcement doesn't have armed drones, we live in a world where only the criminals have armed drones. If criminals have guns, police should have body armor and maybe also guns. If criminals have automatic guns, police should not have automatic guns because 99% of their job has no connection to those encounters and they are a huge force that interacts with the public constantly…

To that end, its not that, in a perfect world, law enforcement shouldn't ever have any of these tools, just that our entire justice system is not set up to adequately police the police.

I'd be in favor of immediately banning armed drones, and immediately banning facial recognition from drone surveillance. At a national level. Don't even give it to federal police forces. Then let the congress come up with a sensible path for qualifying their use. Drones over a sporting event, looking for faces of any known terrorists is a non-starter. Drones over a specific sporting event, looking for a particular suspect, because the officers were able to get a warrant for their use during that event? Ok, sure, if we could find a constitutional path to get there.

Likewise, I have no particular objection to e.g. armed robots, if the police who use it can show that there was no other way to resolve that situation. But there can be no qualified immunity if you lose that case. Whoever signs off on the robot goes to jail for murder if a jury can be convinced there were other realistic options.

Basically, a lot of issues with police abuse of power, to my mind, come down to a total absence of accountability. The tools are not, of themselves, dangerous. Its just that we keep putting them in the hands of people who will never use them responsibly. To be clear, it may well be the case that no people exist who can use them responsibly, but the narrative around removing the tools needs to center on the accountability question, not the "tools are scary" angle.

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