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Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

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Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#191

Post by bbor »

imiric wrote: post #124
bbor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very curious to hear your reasoning!

I'm mostly trolling to stir the pot and see HN's response, and you don't disappoint. :) But since we're all speculating here, if I had to place my money on who will come out on top with AI, it would be the East. And by East, I specifically mean China. While the West is scrambling to limit the pace of AI development, no such regulation exists in China. There have certainly been regulations to limit the power of Chines…

Thanks for the honesty! That is of course against hacker news guidelines, but oh well. Specifically “Eschew flamebait.”

Regarding the topic at hand: that’s plausible. I wouldn’t describe the west as “scrambling to limit AI development” though, more “establishing conventions and rules and accountability and and and”. I guess that might slow down research, but I don’t see it as that simplistic, like a blue bar ticking up in Civ; AI will need some major paradigm shifts before it gets really crazy, and I think a healthier and more sustainable field helps that rather than hindering it.

Plus there’s the fact that “the west” (kinda hate these terms tbh) has ~66% of all CS research - https://m-cacm.acm.org/magazines/2022/4/259407-trends-in-com...

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#192

Post by dns_snek »

yanderekko wrote: post #140
nightfly wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you envision this AI caused extinction happening?

Here's an influential article on the subject: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uMQ3cqWDPHhjtiesc/agi-ruin-a... The basic idea is that once AGI hits an unknown capability threshold it will likely recursively self-improve into something very dangerous and difficult to control, and will likely be able to come up with an effective plan to remove any obstacles to its intended desires, ie. humans. People have varying degree…

What if I peg the likelihood of an AI extinction event at 0.01%?

What if the likelihood of AI "solving" climate change is 10% and the alternative is human extinction?

Can we agree that coming up with sci-fi scenarios and assigning arbitrary likelihood figures to them is pointless?

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#193

Post by imiric »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #162
imiric wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly trolling to stir the pot and see HN's response, and you don't disappoint. :) But since we're all speculating here, if I had to place my money on who will come out on top with AI, it would be the East. And by East, I specifically mean China. While the West is scrambling to limit the pace of AI development, no such regulation exists in China. There have certainly been regulations to limit the power of Chines…

Are there any regulations on AI in the US? I’m not aware of any. > An autocracy has more power and influence to direct its resources in a single direction much more efficiently than any democratic government. Fortunately, because it’s an autocracy, there is no way to know if it is the right direction, until it fails.

> Are there any regulations on AI in the US? I’m not aware of any.

I worded that wrongly, but what I meant is that the current concerns with AI and discussions to pause AI development are entirely happening in Western countries. China will regulate its companies to comply with the goals of the CCP, but they don't have the same ethical and moral concerns as the West.

> Fortunately, because it’s an autocracy, there is no way to know if it is the right direction, until it fails.

They can also afford to fail fast. It's the "move fast and break things" approach to government. :)

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#194

Post by imiric »

bbor wrote: post #191
imiric wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly trolling to stir the pot and see HN's response, and you don't disappoint. :) But since we're all speculating here, if I had to place my money on who will come out on top with AI, it would be the East. And by East, I specifically mean China. While the West is scrambling to limit the pace of AI development, no such regulation exists in China. There have certainly been regulations to limit the power of Chines…

Thanks for the honesty! That is of course against hacker news guidelines, but oh well. Specifically “Eschew flamebait.” Regarding the topic at hand: that’s plausible. I wouldn’t describe the west as “scrambling to limit AI development” though, more “establishing conventions and rules and accountability and and and”. I guess that might slow down research, but I don’t see it as that simplistic, like a blue bar ticking…

At my defense, I wasn't flamebaiting as I honestly believe what I said. It's just a controversial topic, and I expected the negative response.

> I wouldn’t describe the west as “scrambling to limit AI development” though, more “establishing conventions and rules and accountability and and and”.

Well, the discussions here are about pausing AI development. There's a growing public concern about its capabilities, and democratic governments must, in theory, abide to its citizens. An autocratic government can impose its will on the people, and even though China has passed AI regulation recently[1], it ultimately must serve the goals of the CCP. The Chinese government has much more power to direct its resources in ensuring it ends up on top in this race, while Western countries will be bogged down by bureaucracy, red tape, and more stringent regulation. Not to mention that the CCP doesn't share the same moral and ethical concerns. So any current lead the West has at the moment, will not remain so in a few years.

But this is entirely an opinion from a layperson, and I have no expertise in the matter. Cheers for the civil discussion!

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-releases-draft-meas...

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#195

Post by jabradoodle »

mattdeboard wrote: post #188
jabradoodle wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could make similar comments about your account being more than 10 years old yet apparently you don't realise there is a preference for informed discussion on this site. By all means criticise away, by constructing an argument and preferably providing sources. Saying "X is bad" is cheap and does not further discussion or teach anyone. In fact, that kind of behaviour being normalised is the most susceptible to brigad…

oh i'm sorry, was i supposed to treat "the AI doom is more serious and immediate than the climate crisis" like informed discussion ? because that's honestly the dumbest fuckin' thing i've read on this site in a long time. and as you note, i've been here a long time. no person on earth -- who is informed by anything aside from safeguarding or expanding their own capital -- would make that argument.

I don't know how to say it any more clearly; by all means criticise palantir, criticise AI maximalism, it's not about the content of your beliefs.

Comments such as: > Yeah, no shit. That's what I'm saying, Peter

Are in contradiction with HN guidelines and what makes this site valuable, in my opinion, is informed discussion. There are multiple forums where sarcasm and low effort comments are the norm; HN should be more than that.

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#196

Post by pokerface_86 »

shri_krishna wrote: post #182
adastra22 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVIDIA is based in Santa Clara. TSMC is hosted by a strongly west-aligned country.

Doesn't matter where it is based. Nvidia relies on 7nm N7 chips from TSMC for its GPUs. TSMC is based in Taiwan. Both at mercy of China - from trade routes going through South China Sea as well as raw materials being sourced from China. > TSMC is hosted by a strongly west-aligned country. Which is right next to an increasingly hostile neighbour who keeps threatening to invade it. Unless the West is willing to go to W…

nvidia doesn’t NEED tsmc, they have actually proved otherwise with the success of ampere on samsung chips

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#197

Post by peteradio »

imiric wrote: post #194
bbor wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the honesty! That is of course against hacker news guidelines, but oh well. Specifically “Eschew flamebait.” Regarding the topic at hand: that’s plausible. I wouldn’t describe the west as “scrambling to limit AI development” though, more “establishing conventions and rules and accountability and and and”. I guess that might slow down research, but I don’t see it as that simplistic, like a blue bar ticking…

At my defense, I wasn't flamebaiting as I honestly believe what I said. It's just a controversial topic, and I expected the negative response. > I wouldn’t describe the west as “scrambling to limit AI development” though, more “establishing conventions and rules and accountability and and and”. Well, the discussions here are about pausing AI development. There's a growing public concern about its capabilities, and de…

The fastest train still has to stay on the tracks, I think OPs point is that the potential for devastating knock on effects from a mismanaged AI effort can cause overall slowdowns. The red tape and bureaucracy may slow things down from some theoretical maximum, but a train can't fly so as the crow flies is only a theoretical route for a train.

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#198

Post by mattdeboard »

jabradoodle wrote: post #195
mattdeboard wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh i'm sorry, was i supposed to treat "the AI doom is more serious and immediate than the climate crisis" like informed discussion ? because that's honestly the dumbest fuckin' thing i've read on this site in a long time. and as you note, i've been here a long time. no person on earth -- who is informed by anything aside from safeguarding or expanding their own capital -- would make that argument.

I don't know how to say it any more clearly; by all means criticise palantir, criticise AI maximalism, it's not about the content of your beliefs. Comments such as: > Yeah, no shit. That's what I'm saying, Peter Are in contradiction with HN guidelines and what makes this site valuable, in my opinion, is informed discussion. There are multiple forums where sarcasm and low effort comments are the norm; HN should be mor…

oh brother. your account is 2 months old. God only knows what disgusting filth was spilling out of your mouth to get your other accounts banned. Please keep sending me patronizing lectures about decorum in hn comment sections. You're literally concern trolling bud.

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#199

Post by 2devnull »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #162
imiric wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly trolling to stir the pot and see HN's response, and you don't disappoint. :) But since we're all speculating here, if I had to place my money on who will come out on top with AI, it would be the East. And by East, I specifically mean China. While the West is scrambling to limit the pace of AI development, no such regulation exists in China. There have certainly been regulations to limit the power of Chines…

Are there any regulations on AI in the US? I’m not aware of any. > An autocracy has more power and influence to direct its resources in a single direction much more efficiently than any democratic government. Fortunately, because it’s an autocracy, there is no way to know if it is the right direction, until it fails.

“Are there any regulations on AI in the US? I’m not aware of any”

There are yes. Environmental regulations that impact hardware. Personal information, privacy regulations that impact the training data. Business regulations that impact what businesses and business owners can do with labor, financial reporting, etc… We also have a fourth estate so if people like Yudkowksi get enough traction in the media the government will be force to act. That is worse than regulation by government, it’s regulation by the whim of the media owners.

These are not AI regulation per se, but they are de facto restrictions that aren’t present to the same degree in communist China.

Re: Palantir CEO Rejects Calls to Pause AI Development

#200

Post by amval »

dotnet00 wrote: post #77
amval wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Another manifestation of "everything I dislike is fascism"

There are plenty of things I dislike that are not fascism: soup as a main course, jogging, different flavours of authoritarian regimes.

Where I live no one pretends "libertarianism" is a real ideology. This has some upsides. For example, we can call a spade a spade. This doesn't, however, stop Peter Thiel's company from receiving enormous sums of money from the government to set up illegal, massive surveillance operations over its citizens.

How should we call those who use their massive wealth to undermine democracy and relax legislation so they can do as they please, if not fascists? Is "libertarian" already clear enough of a term?

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