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Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

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Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#191

Post by lambdasquirrel »

221qqwe wrote: post #161
sliken wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

192GB ram does seem like enough for a large fraction of the potential market, especially @ 800GB/sec which makes it much more usable than similar amounts of ram on Intel/AMD desktops at 1/8th the bandwidth.

> much more usable than similar amounts of ram People keep repeating this but how does higher bandwidth (probably not 8x higher though) compensate for a lower amount of RAM? It's not quite as silly as the people saying that 8GB in the base config 'feels' much faster than 8GB on a PC cause the drive/swap are "so fast" but still..

Maybe it adds another step to the memory mountain? Folks who use these kinds of workstations might think of in-package RAM as just the next level of cache, if someone goes ahead and makes a card with comparatively slower memory card slots.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#192

Post by acchow »

jeffbee wrote: post #76

$7k starting price. High but compared to? Just glancing at the new HP Z6 G5, which may be a fair comparison, with a 16-core CPU, 8x16GB of memory (the lowest configuration that populates all 8 channels of that CPU), minimal storage, and a parts bin GPU that nobody wants, $6k. To get 8 thunderbolt ports like the mac pro you'd have to fill each and every one of its add-in card slots with a HP dual TB4 card. Edit: The H…

How many simultaneous 4K input video steams can that HP handle (input and encoding)?

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#193

Post by musicale »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #180
gumby wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it's shameful when people descibe a wrong or bogus answer as "hallucination". They are just stimulating unknowledgeable people's fears and/or fanboiism.

Hallucination is a far better word than the recent verbiage I've seen around LLM's lying to you.

BS and travesty generation are well attested.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#194

Post by jeffybefffy519 »

chillbill wrote: post #41

The best thing about this whole event is that they didn't mention AI even once, all they're saying is ML. Which is what it is. AI is a hype word.

Yet all of their other marketing is convoluted non sense. It just shows them being more tactical with marketing to knock some competition down a notch.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#195

Post by JohnBooty »

digitallyfree wrote: post #136
mciancia wrote: post #2

Kinda unimpressive since it seems that it's just mac studio with pci-e expansion

It also doesn't have ECC as well which was a staple of the previous Mac Pro line.

I wonder if on-die RAM is less susceptible to memory errors?

I suspect that it is. Feels like less can go wrong. You have physically shorter interconnects, and the RAM is perhaps more of a known quantity relative to $SOME_RANDOM_MANUFACTURERS_DIMMS. But that is only a guess.

However, I don't know if that's true. I guess it's not necessarily more resistant to random cosmic rays or whatever.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#196

Post by duskwuff »

mk_stjames wrote: post #69

192GB of memory on the Mac Studio is enough to run Llama 65B in full FP16. And at 800GB/s bandwidth, it will do so pretty quickly. I think my M1 Pro memory bandwidth is 200GB/s and I was running quantized 13B Alpaca relatively quickly, I'd say useable for a personal chatbot, and I think it was swapping every now and then causing pauses. So having 4x the memory bandwidth should allow large models to run pretty damn fa…

> I think it was swapping every now and then causing pauses.

What you're seeing is probably "context swapping", not swapping memory to disk. The model can't keep the entire history of its output in context at all times, so LLaMA periodically resets the context and re-prompts it with a portion of its recent output.

https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/blob/f4c55d3bd7e124b1...

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#197

Post by derefr »

WWLink wrote: post #173
zamadatix wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually want 8 Thunderbolt 4 ports that probably puts you towards that price range anyways because nobody has really seen the demand to make a quad Thunderbolt 4 card yet (as far as I know) so you're eating up a lot of slots which were probably designed to have way more than PCIe 3.0 x8 plugged into them. Same with the memory bandwidth, if you actually need 800 GB/s of RAM bandwidth then there isn't really a…

> Overall I don't think it's horrendously priced as some of the previous Mac workstation components could get, but at the same time, unless you have a very specific use case or specifically need macOS, it's not exactly compelling. It is "good enough" to finally round out the lineup though. It's such a specific use case that I'm not entirely sure what the use case even is. Capturing off an SDI camera? Great! Why do we…

> It's such a specific use case that I'm not entirely sure what the use case even is.

Live TV production, I think. Mostly in the rackmount form-factor. A plethora of "IO breakout boards" is what turns a regular computer into a "video production system" head-unit.

Though also, at least three of the PCI-e cards shown on the slide were for fibre-optic networking. So, presumably, this would be the Mac to get if you're trying to Beowulf the M2-Ultras together for some kind of NUMA-friendly ML model training. Or just for a render farm. Insofar as Apple dogfoods things, I would guess this is what they use them for themselves.

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#198

Post by beezle »

For all the accolades about the Apple cpus, market share remains within historical ranges (5-10% per my recollection going back to the late 80s).

For Q1 per IDC: The top five PC manufacturers by market share were Lenovo (23.9%), HP (21.5%), Dell (16.0%), Apple (7.5%), and Acer (6.4%).

Re: Apple unveils new Mac Studio and brings Apple Silicon to Mac Pro

#200

Post by tostr »

jasoneckert wrote: post #134

I own an M1 Ultra Mac Studio that I primarily run Asahi Linux on. Prior to that, I ran a trashcan 2013 Mac Pro 6-core Xeon that I primarily ran Ubuntu Linux on. Thus, I buy Apple primarily for the hardware. After watching today's WWDC product announcements regarding the Mac Studio and Mac Pro updates, I really don't see myself ever buying a Mac Pro in the future. While I can understand how very large studios may valu…

Would you mind expanding a bit on your experiences with running linux on mac hardware? Especially the M1, what is your daily experience like? Any pain points or gotchas?

Reason for my question is that I used to run linux on the mac as well (10 years ago), and I love the hardware. I don't think there is anything that even comes close hardware-wise. But currently I am on mac os, well, because it works basically ;) But I would be curious to know if switching over again would make sense now, without too much hassle.

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