Live data from Hacker News

A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

publicbooks.org

191–200 of 260 posts

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not me that is fixated on the name, it is the article that goes out of its way to assign responsibility "specifically" to the CIA - it's right in the title and in the first paragraph! And this produce what is objectively an historical howler right at the start. As the other commenter said, maybe it's just sloppy editing. But seems pretty click baity to me.

> And this produce what is objectively an historical howler right at the start. What howler? You quote it ascribing actions to the Guatemalan dictatorship in the 1930s which is accurate. Then you claim the piece says the CIA was active in the 1930s, which it does not say anywhere.

I've posted an excerpt from the start of the article at the start of this thread, you could check it.

As it is written, it clearly seems to give the responsibility of the delay in publication to the CIA.

The most charitable interpretation is "poor editing".

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#192
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That there is optimal corruption, in a static system, makes sense to me. Changing the system for the better (I.e. start requiring US Supreme Court justices to actually avoid conflicts of interest, or forbid coordinated out of state money for state’s senate races) could incrementally reduce the corruption stable point. — What strikes me as a missed opportunity, is that democracies haven’t institutionalized a response…

I think most of the response needed to suppress bad behaviour is cultural and peer pressure. Rules and regulations just externalise that problem into an administrative function. People can demonstrate compliance without having to worry about the actual purpose of the rule. And that technical compliance can be used to protect them from any consequences.

Yes, there will always be power mongers and corrupt individuals. So why have a system of rules & regulation?

Why have a democracy, a constitution, laws?

Because separation of powers, regular mandated elections, and other rules that make power harder to centralize, reduce the chance of autocracy from nearly 100% to something much lower.

And debugging that system when obvious in-the-open systematic corruption occurs also has great impact.

I.e. the bill of rights, equal rights amendments, etc

Rules & regulations are a program running on squishy human “hardware”, of course, but fixing clear bugs makes a difference.

Which is why my question isn’t whether fixing government system flaws is worth doing, but whether there is a way to make that activity more regular, more incentivized, more likely.

For instance, the simple rule of requiring elections on a calendar makes elections much much likely.

Maybe some rules that ensured party dominance resulted in an extended period of party handicap would do it? Less incentives and outright necessity for corruption when it isn’t going to extend your hold on power anyway.

I am sure that if a country was writing a new constitution, they could learn something from all the different corrupt vs. less corrupt behaviors of existing democracies.

Surely the best constitution isn’t a solved problem, and constitution innovation hasn’t run into some final optimization limit.

Stockholm syndrome might reduce our awareness of these opportunities, but they exist, despite the difficulty implementing even simple reforms today.

That makes asking how reforms that reduce corruption, and power consolidation, could be made more likely even more important.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CIA did not exist prior to its establishment in 1947, to use your nomenclature. So what is false? The claim specifically made in the article that the delay in publication from 1936 to 1946 was due to CIA action through a front group.

> The claim specifically made in the article that the delay in publication from 1936 to 1946 was due to CIA action through a front group. It doesn't say that anywhere in the article. You've created a conditional in your head that is found nowhere in the article.

No, it does say that.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#194
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author of the article could have said US Intelligence Assets, and forgone the clickbait of CIA. The author makes specific claims about the exact ways that the CIA tried to suppress the novel and author. Do you dispute any of them? It's pretty rich to talk about "easily fact checked" when you don't engage at all with the factual basis for the claims your are disputing.

[flagged]

> The fact that the group specifically identified as the actual vehicle of suppression was “later” (date unspecified, but presumably after the CIA existed) revealed to have been operating as a CIA front doesn't mean that what they did before the CIA existed was on behalf of time travellers from the future when there was a CIA.

It's not clear that you mean by "the group" but CCF, Cuaderno, PEN and Mondo Nuevo were all founded after the CIA.

> Since the CIA did not, in fact, exist, any claims of what the CIA tried to do are self-evidently false, and need no more rebuttal than the date the CIA came into being.

This is a farcical argument. You seem to struggle with the concept that an organization can work to suppress something that already existed when the organization was formed.

There are specific claims that are made about the steps that groups led by CIA operatives took to suppress the book and author. All of these events happened AFTER the CIA was founded.

You either lack basic reading comprehension / logic or are trolling.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#195

There isn't much need to suppress novels anymore. People no longer have sufficient attention span to even finish a 5 minute video and need to be fed bite-sized shorts. No need to kill the producer, consumers have been killed.

Is that true? Last I heard (I just looked it up) over half of people in the US read at least one book per year.

One book per year? Woah someone stop those voracious readers.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#196
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The claim specifically made in the article that the delay in publication from 1936 to 1946 was due to CIA action through a front group. It doesn't say that anywhere in the article. You've created a conditional in your head that is found nowhere in the article.

No, it does say that.

You would think if it was inaccurate, the inaccuracy could be quoted from and pointed to. You do not do so.

I see claims there is an inaccuracy there.

I see people doing paraphrases and inventing conditionals and saying they are inaccurate. Which they are. But they're not the original text.

It's pretty simple, quote some text and say why it is inaccurate.

As there are no inaccuracies of the type mentioned, this does not happen because it cannot happen.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official formation of the CIA was also only a formality, it essentially already existed in its components and other forms, e.g., the OSS. You can’t get so fixated on the official title, it’s the underlying people and their motivations that are the thing. It’s why people have such a hard time understanding and believing the “deep state” and why it hates even being called that because it identifies them. What the w…

“deep state” is insanely vague. Does it mean the part of the government that has lots of secrets it fights tooth and nail to make sure is never revealed and even potentially engages in illegal acts? Or does it mean bureaucracy? From what I’ve heard most people complaining about the “deep state” they always seem to express their complaint about the bounds of normal bureaucracy and less about secret/covert/illegal acti…

I've heard it first hand from a former head of a national agency of another country, say "the C... became a monster" due to the concentration of power it had/has.

It's the entrenched bureaucracy of all flavors.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please provide some examples of “the other side” that have been banned? I’m not in the US, but a country tightly aligned with the US, and I am able to access rt.com just fine.

I also don't live in the west, rather the global south, in a not so allied country. When in Europe and in the US. You'll get something like this on twitter, and obviously you cannot access the site either: @ActualidadRT's account has been withheld in Portugal, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy, Malta, Germany, Greece, Romania, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Austria, Luxembou…

The internet ... huh ... finds a way ... https://swentr.site/

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#199
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're more likely to simply be downvoted into grey, as the aggregate of HN is not a conspiracist crackpot.

[flagged]

Ukraine had seen proxy war just for a few months in spring/summer 2014, until Russia moved in its regular troops to save its sponsored para-militaries in Donbas. Right now it's a war of invaded nation against invader nation, non conspiracist mr refused_cov_vax.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#200
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The role of censorship that the government used to have has shifted to companies like Visa, Mastercard, Amazon, etc. If you try and sell a spicy enough book, they will make sure nobody reads it, and the government can be completely "hands-off". They can fail to process the customer's payment, remove your book from the marketplace, and ban your account. If you try to build your own marketplace, you won't be able to us…

Do you have any examples of books where this is the case? I can believe that there are books that Amazon won't carry but I don't believe that there are books that Credit Card networks won't deal with.

For a short while the book "The Citizen's Guide to Fifth Generation Warfare" was being suppressed on Amazon.

People complained and it was quickly made available again.

Post reply on HN