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HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#191

Post by eestrada »

gabereiser wrote: post #8
onepointsixC wrote: post #5

This doesn't sound legal, and if it is it shouldn't be.

It’s not, they were sued for this practice a few years ago. They continue to do it.

So long as the cost (fines, legal fees, lost revenue due to bad press) is less than the increase in revenue they receive from forcing users to buy their overprices cartridges, HP's behavior won't change.

My most recent printer is an HP I bought at Costco because I knew it worked with CUPS and HPLIP on Linux and macOS. Given how many times I've seen HP pull this stunt though, I'll most likely shop for a different brand next time.

Part of this is also that HP has captured a LOT of corporate printing locations. The cost of migration for those businesses, universities and organizations is huge. I think that is why they keep getting away with this. Even if individual consumers move away from HP, they still own a huge chunk of the corporate printing market.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#192

Post by scarface74 »

wongarsu wrote: post #58
DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

Did you know Brother makes really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long, happy, life? And their drivers aren't user hostile? This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations.

Or buy a laser printer. They cost a bit more upfront, but a single toner cartridge lasts ages (and won't dry out or get used up in cleaning cycles), the printers are generally much more robust and longer lasting, and because laser printing isn't as patent-encumbered there's more actual competition and less outright user-hostile behavior.

Exactly this, I've not gone near an inkjet printer since 1992. When Apple released it's first "affordable" $1000 laser printer.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#193

Post by pcai »

jorvi wrote: post #146
crazygringo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate fines just end up being passed on to workers No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. If the company could get away with paying workers less or decreasing its workforce in order to boost profitability, it already would have. It's no…

Pretty much. Yesterday I wanted to grab some Fanta for in the park. A 0.33L can would’ve been too little, but a 1L bottle too much, and a 1.5L bottle far too much. 0.50L was the perfect size. The pricing? 0.33L - €0.66 (€2.00 per L) 0.50L - €1.48 (€2.96 per L) 1.00L - €1.93 (€1.93 per L) 1.50L - €2.09 (€1.39 per L) Initially this made me angry, as it is very clear they figured out that the 0.5L bottle is the most con…

Just buy 2 of the 0.33L! You already did the math!

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#194

Post by ricktdotorg »

kerkeslager wrote: post #169
crazygringo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate fines just end up being passed on to workers No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. If the company could get away with paying workers less or decreasing its workforce in order to boost profitability, it already would have. It's no…

> No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. Ehh, if they have to, but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders. Even if shareholders foot the bill, why would that be a desirable outcome? Are you arguing that we…

> Ehh, if they have to, but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders.

this is the KEY thing that is always missed.

shareholder happiness level: monitored at all times, a KPI of utmost significance at the most senior levels.

worker/employee happiness level: monitored at the Q{1-4} level at best, a KPI of least significance at all levels.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#195

Post by ClumsyPilot »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #52
CoastalCoder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if this violates U.S. code 1030(a)(5) [0] "(5) (A)knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; (B)intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, recklessly causes damage; or (C)intentionally accesses a protected…

Are we even sure that the customers legally own the printers? For instance, has anyone bothered to read the EULA that came with whatever bundled software someone installs now days to get the printer driver working? Even if there isn't surreptitious transfer of the hardware, they could certainly have a clause in there that authorizes them to do such things.

> Are we even sure that the customers legally own the printers? For instance, has anyone bothered to read the EULA

What If i never installed their software? Now what?

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#196

Post by scarface74 »

einpoklum wrote: post #104
DiabloD3 wrote: post #35

Did you know Brother makes really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long, happy, life? And their drivers aren't user hostile? This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations.

I use a Brother multi-function (MFC-L2710DW). > And their drivers aren't user hostile? They offer a closed-source Linux and you need to download an installer from them (an i386 binary, which also works on i686 and x86_64); so, not great. The driver is mostly-reliable, although every once in a while it does kind of give out on you and printing fails, possibly until a restart. I suppose on Windows it's better. > really…

It amazes that in 2023, other operating systems still need separate drivers for printers. I just look for AirPrint compatible printers and they work seamless from my Mac, iPhone and iPad. I pulled an old 2010 iPad out a couple of years ago and it could print to a brand new printer.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#197

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mcny wrote: post #12

The CEO and the board must serve prison time for things like this. No measure less than prison for the CEO and all board members is enough to curtail this because it just becomes the cost of doing business. No, you can’t say it wasn’t your decision. If you want to not be held accountable for the work your employees, contractors, and agents do on your behalf, you should have to prove they acted against your express wr…

> CEO and the board must serve prison time for things like this. No measure less than prison for the CEO and all board members is enough to curtail this

This is the sort of overreaction that kills reasonable responses, like making HP reimburse everyone whose printer they disabled, trebled, plus pay a big fine to a regulator and also enter into a consent decree. Hit them with a market cap decimating fine. Then let the Board eat its own.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#198

Post by crazygringo »

kerkeslager wrote: post #169
crazygringo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate fines just end up being passed on to workers No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. If the company could get away with paying workers less or decreasing its workforce in order to boost profitability, it already would have. It's no…

> No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. Ehh, if they have to, but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders. Even if shareholders foot the bill, why would that be a desirable outcome? Are you arguing that we…

> but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders.

But it's not up to execs, execs don't control the share price, no matter how much they wish they could. The market does. The market sees the fine, it adjusts the market cap, done.

> Even if shareholders foot the bill, why would that be a desirable outcome?

Because shareholders elected the board. That's the entire foundation of joint-stock corporations, that shareholders get the rewards but also suffer the losses.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#199

Post by scarface74 »

PopePompus wrote: post #133

Has there ever been another company that declined as much from its glory days as HP? During the second half of the 20th century HP was a fabled brand. They made beautiful equipment for which there was often no comparable quality alternative in the world. The pocket calculators they built in the 1980s are still sought-after, not just as collectables but also as daily drivers. They built computers during that era, but…

> They built computers during that era, but they we never a "player" in that industry.

HP was definitely a player in the PC industry and has been the number one manufacturer at different times..

https://statisticsanddata.org/data/best-selling-computer-bra...

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#200

Post by Spooky23 »

mcny wrote: post #12

The CEO and the board must serve prison time for things like this. No measure less than prison for the CEO and all board members is enough to curtail this because it just becomes the cost of doing business. No, you can’t say it wasn’t your decision. If you want to not be held accountable for the work your employees, contractors, and agents do on your behalf, you should have to prove they acted against your express wr…

Why? HP has documented that they do this for years.

The solution is really simple. Buy a printer that doesn’t do this. Many exist. They cost more, because HP sells these as loss leaders.

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